[DNA Dan]

Yeah I have to get back in there with the endoscope today. I see the wire towards the front, but is there one in the rear? Don't know if I want to scope the rear! The camera is really a great diagnostic. I'm going to scope the exhaust next to look for burn marks around the gaskets. Hard to see anything around that turbo.

 

[Mikedick77]

Both KS go back to the same plug, so there are 2 wires. Both go to the rear where the plug is located.

 

[DNA Dan]

Whew! Put in another 8 hours today. Spent most the time cleaning that damn cover and mating surface on the block. It would be easy if you could just go hog wild on it, but alas, CLEANLINESS is important! With the cam holding tools I noticed when one side was easy the other side was a little tight. When I nudged the crank the other way. The tight one became loose and loose one became tight. It's like I could feel one side was out some degrees. This became more evident when I went to put the new chain on. I used the passenger side as my reference point, then had to nudge the driver side back to get it to line up on the colored keys. Seemed to be off by about 1 tooth. Also on that driver's side I had no problem getting the exhaust phaser on, but the intake phaser would not go into the cam key way. Again, I had to nudge it to get it to slip on smoothly. Mind you this is all with the cam tool in place. I used the Lisle cam tools. I triple, quadruple checked that the chain was on the right - "L" for drivers side with the chain on the dot. I don't know if the secondary chain was a little stretched on this side or what. Once I was all finished, both cam tools were resting in there loosely and seemed more in sync with each other. The main chain was stretched about 5/8" compared to the new one. Also the upper driver's side guide had some damage to it.

The phasers and chains were the easy part of this whole job. It's the damn front cover that pushed me over the edge. First of all, cleaning this thing is a huge PITA. To avoid metal objects I used a plastic type wheel on my dremel tool. Mushed it around enough that I could wipe it with brake cleaner. Putting that sealant on there was easy, but super hard to push out the tube. I had a difficult time preparing the tube. I cut just the tip off to get the bead size in the manual, but had no real way to puncture the seal in the tube. I used a coat hanger but the seal was really tough. Anyway, rushing to meet the 10 minute and 30 minute bolt tightening sequence was hard. I'm not using an automatic wrench and quasimoto style was difficult on the lower bolts. As I got toward the end I could really start to feel the sealant bite. It sets up fast, but I think I made it in the time window.

I'll see if I can get some photos up in a bit.

 

[DNA Dan]

These are the VCT solenoids your mother warned you about!

A disaster waiting to happen

The money shot. Ready to pull the grenade pin!

 

[Mikedick77]

Whew! Put in another 8 hours today. Spent most the time cleaning that damn cover and mating surface on the block. It would be easy if you could just go hog wild on it, but alas, CLEANLINESS is important! With the cam holding tools I noticed when one side was easy the other side was a little tight. When I nudged the crank the other way. The tight one became loose and loose one became tight. It's like I could feel one side was out some degrees. This became more evident when I went to put the new chain on. I used the passenger side as my reference point, then had to nudge the driver side back to get it to line up on the colored keys. Seemed to be off by about 1 tooth. Also on that driver's side I had no problem getting the exhaust phaser on, but the intake phaser would not go into the cam key way. Again, I had to nudge it to get it to slip on smoothly. Mind you this is all with the cam tool in place. I used the Lisle cam tools. I triple, quadruple checked that the chain was on the right - "L" for drivers side with the chain on the dot. I don't know if the secondary chain was a little stretched on this side or what. Once I was all finished, both cam tools were resting in there loosely and seemed more in sync with each other. The main chain was stretched about 5/8" compared to the new one. Also the upper driver's side guide had some damage to it.

The phasers and chains were the easy part of this whole job. It's the damn front cover that pushed me over the edge. First of all, cleaning this thing is a huge PITA. To avoid metal objects I used a plastic type wheel on my dremel tool. Mushed it around enough that I could wipe it with brake cleaner. Putting that sealant on there was easy, but super hard to push out the tube. I had a difficult time preparing the tube. I cut just the tip off to get the bead size in the manual, but had no real way to puncture the seal in the tube. I used a coat hanger but the seal was really tough. Anyway, rushing to meet the 10 minute and 30 minute bolt tightening sequence was hard. I'm not using an automatic wrench and quasimoto style was difficult on the lower bolts. As I got toward the end I could really start to feel the sealant bite. It sets up fast, but I think I made it in the time window.

I'll see if I can get some photos up in a bit.

Ever make more progress on this? Been wondering how you're doing on it, and love the detail. Was wondering if you're swapping out the water pump while you're in there also actually. Just seen a new youtube video from Fordtechmakuloco about that gear driven water pump, made me think of ya.

 

[DNA Dan]

I am waiting for parts. Still sitting with just the front cover on it. The harmonic balancer was chewed up on the back from a previous repair and since it's only ~$50 I figured I would just replace it. Also have a new lower radiator hose coming. I basically decided to replace a few more of the hard to reach components. I already have the new water pump, and thankfully it isn't chain driven like the duratec motors.I

In the meantime I have some parts to clean and I am contemplating using CRC cleaner directly on the backs of the valves with them closed, then sucking the dissolved carbon out using a vacuum pump. I see all sorts of videos of guys doing this on BMW's. Not sure if our valves are that tight to keep a liquid from draining into the cylinder? Might be an easier alternative to walnut shell blasting. I can't blast it with the valve covers off anyway. Stay tuned..

 

[RMB_Ryan]

I am waiting for parts. Still sitting with just the front cover on it. The harmonic balancer was chewed up on the back from a previous repair and since it's only ~$50 I figured I would just replace it. Also have a new lower radiator hose coming. I basically decided to replace a few more of the hard to reach components. I already have the new water pump, and thankfully it isn't chain driven like the duratec motors.I

In the meantime I have some parts to clean and I am contemplating using CRC cleaner directly on the backs of the valves with them closed, then sucking the dissolved carbon out using a vacuum pump. I see all sorts of videos of guys doing this on BMW's. Not sure if our valves are that tight to keep a liquid from draining into the cylinder? Might be an easier alternative to walnut shell blasting. I can't blast it with the valve covers off anyway. Stay tuned..

Careful there. We will see a crescent moon on new motors if we shine a light on the chamber and look down the port. The factory valve job should keep most out, but I will be frank with you, it’s not a great valve job. Perhaps good time to grab something to blast them with cheap with larger media

Also, work looks clean, good job. Soak rags In gasoline and lay them drenched on the sealant. Next morning you can scrape it off with your finger. [emoji106]

 

[DNA Dan]

Careful there. We will see a crescent moon on new motors if we shine a light on the chamber and look down the port. The factory valve job should keep most out, but I will be frank with you, it’s not a great valve job. Perhaps good time to grab something to blast them with cheap with larger media[emoji106]

How big of a crescent would you say? 1 mm? 2 mm? Seems like if it can pass through that it should not be an issue for the piston.

 

[DNA Dan]

So I tried this scrub and suck method one of my cylinders today. I did just one cylinder to see if it would work okay. Try at your own risk, I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. The CRC GDI stuff costs ~$15 a can and I'll probably use 2 full cans for all the cylinders, plus 1 can of carb cleaner and a toothbrush. I think I will try the rest of them when I have time.

CRC GDI direct Valve cleaning
1) Turned crank to get piston at TDC, covered rest of ports and engine.
2) Squirted a little bit of CRC GDI valve cleaner directly on valves, watched closely for seepage into cylinder. (Did not see any leakage.)
3) Gave 4-5 short bursts on walls and on valve. Solution foams and looks like it's bubbling. Waited ~1-2 minutes.
4) Used brake bleed siphon to suck liquid out.
5) Repeated step 3 and 4 about 4 times. (About halfway through started using a toothbrush to scrub intake walls and whatever it would reach.
6) Checked that no chunks were visible.
7) Rinsed walls with carb cleaner 2X and sucked the liquid off again. (Be sure to tape straw to nozzle so it doesn't shoot off!)

This first photo is the second cylinder on the driver's side. (Not the actual one that was cleaned, but looked similar.)

This is the forward most cylinder on the driver's side after treatment.

This is a sample of what the liquid looks like. . THE BLACK GOO...

 

[Mikedick77]

So I tried this scrub and suck method one of my cylinders today. I did just one cylinder to see if it would work okay. Try at your own risk, I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. The CRC GDI stuff costs ~$15 a can and I'll probably use 2 full cans for all the cylinders, plus 1 can of carb cleaner and a toothbrush. I think I will try the rest of them when I have time.

CRC GDI direct Valve cleaning
1) Turned crank to get piston at TDC, covered rest of ports and engine.
2) Squirted a little bit of CRC GDI valve cleaner directly on valves, watched closely for seepage into cylinder. (Did not see any leakage.)
3) Gave 4-5 short bursts on walls and on valve. Solution foams and looks like it's bubbling. Waited ~1-2 minutes.
4) Used brake bleed siphon to suck liquid out.
5) Repeated step 3 and 4 about 4 times. (About halfway through started using a toothbrush to scrub intake walls and whatever it would reach.
6) Checked that no chunks were visible.
7) Rinsed walls with carb cleaner 2X and sucked the liquid off again. (Be sure to tape straw to nozzle so it doesn't shoot off!)

This first photo is the second cylinder on the driver's side. (Not the actual one that was cleaned, but looked similar.)
View attachment 146049
This is the forward most cylinder on the driver's side after treatment.
View attachment 146057
This is a sample of what the liquid looks like. . THE BLACK GOO...
View attachment 146065

I like what you're doing there. I may actually try that. I seen a few of mine didn't look that great, and read that smoothes out the idle a bit when done. Good for you, man. Cant wait to see how that turns out.

 

[DNA Dan]

I think I am going to go purchase a brass brush or something with a head on it. The intake walls were easy with a toothbrush, but the actual valve, (Where it probably matters most) was hard to reach without using a scraping tool or a long screwdriver. I am leery about the metal brushes in case they shed bristles.

 

[Mikedick77]

I think I am going to go purchase a brass brush or something with a head on it. The intake walls were easy with a toothbrush, but the actual valve, (Where it probably matters most) was hard to reach without using a scraping tool or a long screwdriver. I am leery about the metal brushes in case they shed bristles.

Brass brush head with a long stem on a dremmel tool maybe? I'm just guessing, as i've never done this, but just where my head goes, as i've seen where you're working.

 

[DNA Dan]

Yeah that's what I am thinking too, but there's just so many chinese knock off brushes of low quality. The number one complaint I see on amazon is the brush breaking and bristles falling out. Perhaps I should use steel so I can use a magnet if it breaks? I certainly don't want to scratch up the valve stem. A good nylon brush might work too. I'll have to see what I can get locally. Regardless, I think I can do better than what is in the pictures. It's already about a 80-90% improvement with minimal effort.

 

[Mikedick77]

Yeah that's what I am thinking too, but there's just so many chinese knock off brushes of low quality. The number one complaint I see on amazon is the brush breaking and bristles falling out. Perhaps I should use steel so I can use a magnet if it breaks? I certainly don't want to scratch up the valve stem. A good nylon brush might work too. I'll have to see what I can get locally. Regardless, I think I can do better than what is in the pictures. It's already about a 80-90% improvement with minimal effort.

Loose bristles would freak me out a little too. Nylon don't sound too bad. Curious how you approach this honestly, as I have no clue. I'd probably be bringing mine to the walnut blast shop if these pics didn't make me think I'm capable

 

[gbr357]

$60 for a portable blaster and course walnut shell from HF. Not recommending that, just saying I would like someone else to try it before I do. Was your idle rough before the timing issues? My idle has quieted down A LOT after I put my tune back on. I was running stock for a couple weeks because I went back to stock to do the misfire monitor neutral profile correction procedure. She just runs so much better on a tune.

Glad to see it is coming along for you Dan...looks good. Front cover was nerve wracking for me too and I was bent over the damn radiator. Got the first set of bolts torqued in 12 minutes...close enough for me. Sounds like your RTV wasn't in a caulk tube??

 

[DNA Dan]

Sounds like your RTV wasn't in a caulk tube??

It was in a caulk tube, but in order to get it to flow you cut the tip, then puncture the seal inside correct? Well I could barely puncture the seal. It was really tough. I didn't have a long thin enough screwdriver to jam in there. So I used a coat hanger. I don't think I punctured it enough to flow fast. The service manual calls for a 3mm bead and I didn't want to stretch out the opening by using a regular sized screwdriver. Although looking back, I wonder if people just cut the tip large, pop it with a screwdriver then put the cap on and cut the cap for a small bead? At 3mm thickness, it sounds like less is better than gobbing on a 1/4" bead or something.

Idle was just slightly rough, not too bad. I just want to do all I can while I have this thing on the operating table.


Not to change the course of this thread, but I found a good solution to the scrub and suck valve clean method. Forget automotive brushes, they just aren't durable enough to jam in the hole and scrub that carbon. What I bought was a shotgun cleaning brush and a .40 caliber short pistol brush. They are both nylon, the bristles are super tough and made with a high degree of quality because it's designed to be used in the barrel of a gun. I put these on a metal push rod and it worked perfectly. I think it's still more work than blasting, but I like being able to control the mess. My valve covers are still off and the engine is open. It takes two cans because I noticed the CRC stuff will bubble up like it's reacting with the carbon, then after a couple minutes it will stop like it's not reacting anymore. That's when I suck it off, then shoot it with fresh solvent. Scrub, then repeat like 4-5 times. Final rise with some carb cleaner, suck it off, then blow dry out. Easy peazy, just a dirty job.

It actually works out good with a timing chain fix. You can clearly see the cams when turning the engine over and you get some confirmation that you have it timed in the right position (no valves hitting pistons!) It's not as clean as blasting would make it, but for about $50 in brushes, 2 cans of CRC, and a can of carb cleaner, I think it's good enough. They are probably 90% clean. I can't imagine what a shop would want to walnut blast them. I'm getting anxious to fire this thing up! It feels so good and tight turning the motor over with a rachet.

 

[Mikedick77]

It was in a caulk tube, but in order to get it to flow you cut the tip, then puncture the seal inside correct? Well I could barely puncture the seal. It was really tough. I didn't have a long thin enough screwdriver to jam in there. So I used a coat hanger. I don't think I punctured it enough to flow fast. The service manual calls for a 3mm bead and I didn't want to stretch out the opening by using a regular sized screwdriver. Although looking back, I wonder if people just cut the tip large, pop it with a screwdriver then put the cap on and cut the cap for a small bead? At 3mm thickness, it sounds like less is better than gobbing on a 1/4" bead or something.

Idle was just slightly rough, not too bad. I just want to do all I can while I have this thing on the operating table.


Not to change the course of this thread, but I found a good solution to the scrub and suck valve clean method. Forget automotive brushes, they just aren't durable enough to jam in the hole and scrub that carbon. What I bought was a shotgun cleaning brush and a .40 caliber short pistol brush. They are both nylon, the bristles are super tough and made with a high degree of quality because it's designed to be used in the barrel of a gun. I put these on a metal push rod and it worked perfectly. I think it's still more work than blasting, but I like being able to control the mess. My valve covers are still off and the engine is open. It takes two cans because I noticed the CRC stuff will bubble up like it's reacting with the carbon, then after a couple minutes it will stop like it's not reacting anymore. That's when I suck it off, then shoot it with fresh solvent. Scrub, then repeat like 4-5 times. Final rise with some carb cleaner, suck it off, then blow dry out. Easy peazy, just a dirty job.

It actually works out good with a timing chain fix. You can clearly see the cams when turning the engine over and you get some confirmation that you have it timed in the right position (no valves hitting pistons!) It's not as clean as blasting would make it, but for about $50 in brushes, 2 cans of CRC, and a can of carb cleaner, I think it's good enough. They are probably 90% clean. I can't imagine what a shop would want to walnut blast them. I'm getting anxious to fire this thing up! It feels so good and tight turning the motor over with a rachet.
View attachment 146161
View attachment 146169
View attachment 146177

Hey that looks really good! Now you're making me think I can do this even more. I'm really impressed by how good those look! Good job, and good thinking!

I have plenty of gun cleaning tools already. Brushes I have in Nylon are only 5.7x28 for my PS-90, 12 gauge for my pump, .22 for my 10/22, 5.56 for the AR. Think I have a few 7.62 left over but sold my sks and Mosin, but I have .45acp in pistol brush if I really need a pistol brush for this. My knees have just healed up from that weekend kneeling on the IC, not looking forward to that part.... I bet a 7 dollar Wal-Mart pillow fixes that. I wont be that kind of dumb ass again and screw my knees.

 

[DNA Dan]

Yeah that CRC stuff is really something. It will react and dissovle the deposits. Just have to keep doing it over and over. Each time it gets cleaner and cleaner. Even the carburetor cleaner seemed to be dissolving the deposits, cause every time I sucked it off it was a black liquid. Just have to take your time. I looked in a few "open" cylinders with the intake valve in the down position and was surprised how small the lift was. There isn't much of a gap in there under full lift. So I can completely understand if the coking/oil buildup adversely affects MPG. If I had to guess, I'd say it probably restricts somewhere around 5-10% of the airflow depending upon how built up your deposits are.

 

[Mikedick77]

Wow no kidding. My MPG last time I checked was terrible. Like 11-12MPG, but that was with the bad KS and running like garbage. I'm too lazy to do the math on it again, would use the in-car MPG calc, but my dash is stuck on trip 1 due to what I believe is a bad clock spring. Info button does nothing for me. Good to know though, and good motivation for me to do the valves.

 

[Drewbley]

Hey guys I just Bought a 2012 f150 with 79800 miles on it and guess what I have the rattle, yep the dreaded timing chaing rattle, I’m barely still in the emissions warranty, but just barely, I have had two local dealers tell me that tsb 16-0027 is not covered under the emissions warranty but I have heard from multiple people online say that it is covered. HELP ME PLEASE! Has anyone had it covered under emissions or had similar issues??? thanks