[Booooost2016]

I would confirm oil pressure first and foremost. So you know what your dealing with. Did you pull the actuators and check the screens? Forscan can show you a lot of good live data.

I would proceed after confirming you have good oil pressure…

Thank you and I think you’re right ! I’m starting there because honestly It will give me a few more days to collect opinions. And it will give me an idea of how safe it is to run the truck while checking other stuff.

 

[Booooost2016]

So disheartening to hear about oil pressure issues after the timing job. And it's far more common than you might think.

But one potential cause is the use of the wrong chain tensioner on one side or the other. Ford changed the tensioner design on one side of the block, at some point, and the oil passage is very different. This required a design change for the tensioner as well.

It's easy to mistakenly use the wrong tensioner because externally they look very similar. But if you mismatch, you can't build sufficient oil pressure.

Honestly that would be better news then having to pull the phasers and chain of all I had to do is pop in a tensioner I could maybe be happy with that. My truck is a 2016 That’s still a gen 1 ecoboost correct ? I bought a freedom racing kit. I double checked part numbers on almost everything if I had any doubt but I’ll admit the tensioner was not one of them.

 

[Booooost2016]

So disheartening to hear about oil pressure issues after the timing job. And it's far more common than you might think.

But one potential cause is the use of the wrong chain tensioner on one side or the other. Ford changed the tensioner design on one side of the block, at some point, and the oil passage is very different. This required a design change for the tensioner as well.

It's easy to mistakenly use the wrong tensioner because externally they look very similar. But if you mismatch, you can't build sufficient oil pressure.

You’re talking the main tensioner correct ? Not the secondary tensioners ?

 

[Booooost2016]

Since you have the Gen1 3.5, the potential chain tensioner compatability issue that I referred to doesn't apply. So I doubt you have the wrong tensioner(s) installed.

I has assumed you had a Gen2 when I posted. Sorry about that.

No worries and thanks for the clarification, I will say, you while we are talking about the tensioner, my engine is fairly sludgy you might be able to see in the video, to ensure the tensioner would lay flat i wanted to clean a bit of the crud away from the mating surface, i don't remember what i used but while cleaning throughout the entire process i used a fine scotch bright and a razer blade, is it possible i maybe introduces enough micro scratches between the tensioner and the block to where its actually leaking oil?

i am surprised i have read i think 2 threads already the tezzy threat and the wrmcdonld5 thread and both of them ended up changing their pickup tubes and pumps, and both of their engines were cleaner then mine, maybe this whole process just dislodged enough crud to get things plugged up.

let me know your thoughts on the scratches, i think thats unlikely, but thought i would mention it since we were talking about the tentioner

i think maybe the first thing i do is confirm i am lacking oil pressure at the switch ill prob run to the parts store tonight and rent a tester. or buy a manual gauge.

 

[Booooost2016]

Okay guys I'm going to probably try and get a tester, or a manual gauge at the parts store. To confirm that the oil pressure is actually low.

I also have a new camshaft Position sensor on the way, to potentially deal with the timing ? I know its unlikely but i did spend some time washing out the passenger valve cover it maybe didn't like the parts cleaner ? (although i really tried to stay clear of that area) or maybe it got bumped or something. Its cheep and easiest to change. Might as well rule it out.

 

[Booooost2016]

In my history, engines with crud all ended up needing new oil pickups...

well maybe i start there anyways, since it likely could use it, i just see that it doesn't seem to be a particularly fun job.

 

[Booooost2016]

Okay guys, a buddy came over today with a fancy scanner and a oil pressure tester

We ran the truck for probably a total of 45 minutes diagnosing the timing issues and it started at 60pso cold and eventually dropped to 20 psi and sat there for the entire duration at idle and when we would rev it to 1200-1500 rpm it would be between 35-40

I felt like we were in the clear on the oil pressure front but after he left I took it for a short ride and it. Literally just around the block maybe 40 mph max did put it into boost a little and the oil pressure did drop to under 10psi. I shut it off as soon as I could, and it jumped back up to 40 psi. And stayed that way till I got home ( might have dipped right as I was pulling into the drive way) seems like higher rpm’s to low rpm’s start to starve it, maybe vaccume?


as far as the timing goes we tied a couple things

we got 2 interesting readings.

1. “Exhaust camshaft B Desired minus Actual bank 2 = -55
Where as the one on the other side is 1.5

and 2 “actual exhaust B camshaft position bank 1 = 75.68” under the “variable camshaft exhaust angle desired” section

I’ll be honest idk what these values mean but it seems that the exhaust cam is an outlier. And the sensors are reporting (valid or not) that it’s out of range. It almost looks like it’s suggesting it’s 75.68 degrees out? Could it really be that far out and run so smooth ?

 

[Booooost2016]

I would confirm oil pressure first and foremost. So you know what your dealing with. Did you pull the actuators and check the screens? Forscan can show you a lot of good live data.

I would proceed after confirming you have good oil pressure…

Your talking about the 4 sensors guy above the cam phasers ? I put 4 new ones in. I checked oil pressure today. The sensor was working so long as I kept it in the garage idling it even raving it up a bit. Oil pressure was fine once I took it for a short ride oil pressure dropped under 10, but as soon as I turned it back off and back on. Oil pressure came back up to 40.

 

[Booooost2016]

The ones im talking about are control oil solenoids. Look like this… View attachment 205565
Sounds like with your oil pressure dropping after a drive and comes back after a quick restart. It’s time to drop the pan. Clean it out and the oil pick up.

Valvoline Restore and Protect would be a good idea to run for the next foreseeable future. Short change the first one for sure IMO.

Yeah the truck got new ones of these. Thank you Does not mean the part is good tho ! I suppose.

 

[Booooost2016]

Okay guys I watched a video on how the phasers work…. Looks like when the solenoids are letting the oil through. The intake and exhaust cams should have a degree offset of about zero (so all my .75 to 1.25 values seem….. not that far off I guess) but then the exhaust cam on the passenger side is at like 75 degrees ….however IF that cam was getting low oil pressure…… it would be 52 degrees. So (and let me preface this with…. I’m an idiot but ) it’s almost like that cam might have low oil pressure, or a bad vct selinoid AND be off a tooth or 2 in order to be chilling out all the way over at 75 degrees.

I’m not working on it tonight Or probably tomorrow. But def this weekend I’m going to try to get forscan back on it and see if that gives me the same values as Autel.

Not sure it changes much but might tell me if I want to put another new vct in .

do any of you think it’s possible I have a faulty new phaser ? I feel like if it were just off a tooth I should be seeing closer to 14.4 degrees (360/25 teeth)

My plan is to go back in as soon as I can work up the energy, hopefully see something obviously wrong with the chain install(can’t imagine what that would be but) and then drop the pan and do the oil pickup tube and the oil pump this time.

 

[Booooost2016]

If you live in the Austin area- let me know and I’ll come by to help!

I’m in the fox valley in Wisconsin! Feel free to swing by

 

[Booooost2016]

Okay guys ……. I’m going to ask a question I thought I knew the answer to but now I’m 2nd guessing.

There isn’t a left and right intake phaser right? It’s the same part correct ?

(I know this is true for the exhaust because you use the l and the r marking depending on side) but the intake phasers use the same part number for both the passenger and drivers side too right?

 

[Booooost2016]

Correct, intake camshaft and exhaust camshaft have the same phaser for both sides.

You could have a leaking phaser or it’s out a couple teeth. I doubt the data will be different using Forscan vs the Autel scan tool.

I’m trying to get freedom racing to send a new phaser.

do you think the problem could be on even a different cam ? And some other phaser is like adjusting to save itself and pulling the exhaust out ? That’s not a thing is it?

or are we confident the problem is isolated to the exhaust cam ?

 

[Booooost2016]

Updaaaaaaaaaate….
Freedom racing sent another phaser out for cost, and is opening a warranty with ford, if ford agrees they freedom racing will refund my card.
They were extremely helpful so I want to give them a little shout out.
I’m probably going to start opening it up tonight because freedom racing wants their other one back. So maybe as early as tonight I’ll be able to try dropping on the cam holders.

I guess they have some techs there who watched my video and took a look at my autel data and they seem to all agree I’m looking at either bad timing, bad phaser or bad vvt solenoid.

I’m prob going to run to ford, get a couple more cam bolts and a another new vct selinoid

and this time include the oil pump that that one ford YouTube mechanic that everyone likes recommends. Get that coming from rock auto I guess.

stay tuned.

 

[Booooost2016]

We got another update boys! A Reddit user is in my exact same position right now he’s waiting for his sealant to dry and is reporting back tomorrow. What we realized. We both rolled the engine backwards at one time or another.

 

[Booooost2016]

They like to jump just on spring tension rolling backwards

Crap! It appears to be in time ….

 

[Booooost2016]

The plot thickens.

this stupid thing was in time, the cam holders dropped right on and when I pulled the timing set off the passenger side head. The colored links were directly on the R and dot (which is kinda a weird coincidence) (drivers side dropped on too) I suppose it’s possible the crank is off ( but forscan showed the 3 of the 4 cams happy) but it looked like it was in…. I haven’t reset the chain yet. Just pulled the passenger side apart so that I can ship the exhaust phaser back to freedom racing.

I guess I’ll pop the new phaser on, prob change this vvt solenoid again while I’m in here, and then drop the pan and change the pick up and pump and hope that this all solves it somehow.

anything else I should double check while I’m in here ?

any other ideas? I almost wonder if that cam isn’t pushing enough oil pressure to advance the phaser. How do people clean passeges of gunk , just some snake oil engine flushes ?

 

[Booooost2016]

Flip the actuator solenoids side to side and see if one of those is causing you grief....

Do you mean swap them from one head to the other? Honestly I’m just going to put another new on this grumpy cam .

 

[Booooost2016]

Waiting on oil pump and pick up tube, do you guys know ….. can change the pick up tube with the front sealed up ( I know the oil pump needs to go in from the front)? Or should I wait to put the front on until after the pick up tube is changed