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Max numbers on stock internals 14 3.5l?

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15K views 63 replies 15 participants last post by  GearHead_1  
#1 ·
Hello everyone,
Posted a question last week about upgrading turbos and supporting mods. I pulled the trigger on a few goodies and was wondering where the 14 3.5 is safe to run hp and tq wise. Truck stays with 93 octane in it and I’m at sea level here in Florida. here’s a list of everything that is on it and will be on it.
-s&b cold air intake
-cvf atlas intercooler
-cvf hot and cold side piping
-turbo smart vee port BOV
-full race formline manifolds(fitted for Garrett power max)
-Garrett power max turbos
-full race turbo adapters
-4” MBRP cutback exhaust
-SCT x4 with custom tunes from MPT
I will be adding high flow catted downpipes later down the road just haven’t decided which set to go with. My main thing is I want the truck to have plenty of power and be reliable because it is my daily driver. Does anybody have any insight as to how much is too much? Also haven’t chosen what tunes to get from mpt if anybody with a similar set up could chime in on what they are using for tunes and how they like it. Thank you in advance and sorry about the long winded post I’m excited for new parts
 
#2 ·
I would talk with your tuner. Stock block Gen 1’s are usually at their limits at 500 hp. You might be able to push it harder but I wouldn’t recommend it.
 
owns 2017 Ford F-150 Lariat
#5 ·
Not familiar with tuning and all that but it seems like with as much is going on the truck it should make more than 500hp at the crank even on pump gas. Whether it’s safe or not is a whole different deal but I feel like it should make more than that. Obviously want it to be as safe as I can get it, just disappointing to hear
 
#4 ·
I would just make sure not to spin the turbos too hard. Make sure the wastegate duty cycle doesnt need to max out up top. I think thats what will stress the motor a lot.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
The Gen1 cant really make big power. Tho a few have, they have done some major upgrades. Not just bolt ons.

Most of the mods you list don’t actually make more power. They just allow you to spin the turbos a bit more out of their efficiency range.

Turbos and fueling will produce the best results. E30-E50 is an ideal range.

If you want reliability - just do Turbos, Manifolds, intercooler, and tune. The extra cash you save can be put towards the timing chain when it’s time.
 
#10 ·
Where I live there is no e85 or 50 or 30 any of that so it would be pointless for me to set up for that. I’m happy with it as it is. The extra power and sound from the mods will be a bonus but reliability is the key for me. What other mods would you say really help with the reliability of the truck? Upgraded radiator, catch can, things like that
 
#11 ·
These engines are air pumps whether you're talking Gen 1 or Gen 2. Either is capable of making some real horsepower. Some insist that the dual injection system on the Gen 2 is far superior when building for HP. While dual injection offers some benefits, I personally don't believe that if horsepower is your goal it's a big deal. You can give a Gen 1 all the fuel necessary to make good numbers.

Ford learned things from the first-gen engine. The big things they took home from the early builds were that it needed better rods and better pistons for an engine that is to be driven hard and for a long life doing so. The Gen 2 starts out better from the get-go. That doesn't mean a Gen 1 can't get there. It's just done in the aftermarket.

If you're going beyond say perhaps 500 HP with a Gen 1 Block. Stabilizing the cylinders (closing the block), better rods, and better pistons are the pieces that will ensure that it lives beyond those numbers. Sadly, it takes thousands of dollars to do this.

You can add enough bolt-ons to a Gen 1 to get well beyond 500 HP without trying too hard. Just know up front going into it that chances are good that it will eat itself unless you strengthen the bottom end.
 
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#12 ·
If you're going beyond say perhaps 500 HP with a Gen 1 Block. Stabilizing the cylinders (closing the block) better rods and better rings and pistons are the pieces that will ensure that it lives beyond those numbers. Sadly, that's thousands of dollars later. You can add enough bolt-ons to get beyond that number without trying to hard but know up front going into it that chances are good that it will eat itself.
Yeah it’s only 2 months old to me, not quite ready to put a motor in it to withstand all my wants lol. However, I have already started looking for fresh blocks to build in my spare time if the money permits down the road. Rmb seems to have a killer set up. Even the stage 1 motor is supposed to be good for 700hp which is probably more than I’ll ever need. And from what Ibe read you really seem to know your way around the ecoboost gear head. You do tuning on these, right?
 
#20 ·
Personally I want to be around 450 Crank. That would be about ~100hp over stock, and where I expected to be with these slightly larger turbos on pump gas.

Uncoincidentally, I stall out around 39 lbs/min as well (tuned), so that extra ~6 lbs/min should be certainly attainable here, and without stress, given they are advertising ~60 lbs/min at sea level under ideal scenarios.
 
#28 ·
Definitely flat.
Houston is coastal. So you embrace the tropical weather (hot & humid), and the beach, rather than the cool dry air and the mountains. (if you can't embrace it, you will be miserable for 3 months straight)

I honestly am happy with either mountains OR the beach. There's lots of places with neither.
I'm south of Houston, but work literally at Hobby Airport. Hobby is about 3 miles inside of Houston city limits from the route I enter from. So I barely touch the huge expanse of the metropolis. Equal distance from Hobby to Surfside beach.

Image
 
#29 ·
Definitely flat.
Houston is coastal. So you embrace the tropical weather (hot & humid), and the beach, rather than the cool dry air and the mountains. (if you can't embrace it, you will be miserable for 3 months straight)

I honestly am happy with either mountains OR the beach. There's lots of places with neither.
I'm south of Houston, but work literally at Hobby Airport. Hobby is about 3 miles inside of Houston city limits from the route I enter from. So I barely touch the huge expanse of the metropolis. Equal distance from Hobby to Surfside beach.
Pics like that do encourage reconsideration.

Nothing wrong with Houston. Just normal big city stuff, but scaled up & spread across an unending landscape of concrete. Don’t see too much crime or depravity, though.

40 mins to anywhere and a special kind of traffic that is absolutely manic
(Houston GPS instructions:
STOP!!!!!
wait…….wait…….. wait………..
GOOOOOO!!!!!!
TURN NOW!!!!!!!
85MPH!!!!!
STOP!!!!!!)

But chief complaint: too easy to breathe at sea level
 
#30 ·
Don't mistake anything I have said for vouching for living in Houston.

I have spent my life moving farther and farther out of Houston as it expanded.
The first half was moving North from it. Which is much harder because it expanded in that direction FAST and FAR.

Then about 30 years ago, switched to the south side because you could find rural closer out.

I won't live where helicopters are flying at night with spotlights on. (Leo in the air) I do have to earn a living, so in daylight I venture in to the concrete jungle, but run for away from it before dark.

I personally think crime in Houston is unforgivably high. Harris County just doesn't have the political will to thwart it.
 
#33 ·
It's the air conditioning capital of the world for a good reason.

Folks probably don't spend much time outside in Fargo during the coldest 3 months. Houston is the same thing in reverse. You simply stay indoors from 10am <>5PM July through August.

Or, do the opposite of snowbirds and head for the Rockies or the U.P. for the summer. :)
 
#42 ·
Here's the thing the frist is great but still is not perfect I'm hoping people stay educated about how like here's a example 2.3L eco are no where near as tuff as 2.0L eco both 4 cylinder but very very different designs. 2.0
L IS WINER 2.3 IS A PAPER WEIGHT look at YouTube with both blocks with heads off get back to me on what u think.
 
#43 ·
get back to me on what u think.
Since you asked…

I think I want to point out that this is a F150 Ecoboost forum and we specialize in 2.7L and 3.5L Ecoboosts that went into the trucks.

I think we’ve got a lot of folks knowledgeable about the other engines, but you might get a better argument going on some other site.

I think I would like to know what your experiences with the 2.7 and 3.5 Ecoboost are. Do you currently own a F150 with either engine?
 
#45 ·
OK If l that's the case why does ford racing sell only for 1st gen ecoboost ford racing turbos that ford says it boost stock engine to around 750hp look I know u think ur newer F150 is better but it's not stop lieing to make u look like someone that knows but ur not.
State your source. Ford isn't telling anyone that a OE Gen1 engine will support 750 HP.
 
#47 ·
@scarygary94, you've picked an interesting way to integrate yourself in the forum, are you mad at someone?

Neither the 2.3 nor the 2.0 are winners when it comes to blocks. When you talk about tuff engines, think about the Ford Barra or the 2JZs, those are tuff engines. 2.3 when pushed, will break blocks. Any 2.0 through 2019 can have a head gasket say goodbye at any time. Often times filling cylinders and then breaking things, the more boost you give it, the more likely it is for that to happen. Ford has coughed it up on a lot of these engines. The earlier 2.3's are no stranger to internal coolant leak problems, either.

The split cylinder wall Ford chose to use is a poor design. The term tuff is all relevant, so the question is what's your point? You decide what you want the engine to do, and you put the parts in it to meet the goal.

Aftermarket with these platforms are another story all together, but that's not really what this thread is about. The 2.3's can push 1000 HP, mid 8 second 1/4 mile. The quarter mile record for a 2.3 is a thunderbird shell and running 7.0X flat.

Gen 1 engines are still around today because they put them in vans and other specific models, not because they are a superior design.

The most current version of the GT ran 2nd Gen. engines.

Now if you want to teach us, I think I speak for most members today, we're willing to learn. Share information with us in a civil manner, and we'll let you hang around.

 
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#48 ·
While on the tropic of the 2.0 and 2.3 I stumbled upon this video which takes quite an interesting view of a blow 2.3. KM

 
owns 2017 Ford F150 XL
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#51 ·
Interesting video, but doesn't answer all my questions. Why do some of these unmodified 2.3's, end up with detonation in the cylinder and others don't? I don't think all of those 2.3's that failed early were due to detonation. I think the gaskets gave it up.

It makes perfect sense on an engine with mods, having said that, I've seen the insides of 2 of the 2.0's torn down. These were daily drivers and not engines pushed hard. In both cases the head gasket had washed out between the first and second cylinders, there were no other signs of the head gasket being breached. I've gotta believe that the limited surface area between the cylinders with the split wall water passages are the primary cause of these failing.

I know Ford ate a lot of these under warranty. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't beleive that all of the stock engines Ford ate was due to a lifting head. Of course, I've been wrong before. One of the dealers said that old antifreeze played a big part on gasket deterioration. I don't know that I bought that either, as the first one of these I saw had less than 10,000 miles on it and was about a year old. They got around to changing the block design in 2020.

You can see the "split" between cylinders in this pic. The block was changed to eliminate that. Most people that run these hard, now run a late model block or run a closed deck block. I think Livernois and others machine a closed block kit for these much like the ones RMB uses on the Gen1 3.5's.

Image
 
#52 ·
Their description of what cause the damage was a lifted head in concert with/result of a detonation, described as a LSPI event. The damage to the #3 piston is plain, but the lifted head is shown in the head bolt recesses. The gasket clearly blew out to the side of cylinder 3. The last 1/2 is a discussion of reversion and the different failures between the 2.0 and 2.3 mostly due to porting differences between the types.
But yes this is on a 2.3 running high boost on stock turbos. The video dates to 2018 and a stock open deck block. They do reference LSPI a bunch, yeah something I also harp on a lot. KM
 
owns 2017 Ford F150 XL
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