[lil red 02]

It also deteriorates fuel lines and does other stuff. But I already filled up with ethanol gas so maybe next time I will try it.

 

[slothman]

I think I am going to try a E30 tune as well

 

[ecothepeg]

Could be the local gas here but the difference between running premium no ethanol vs regular 10% stuff is pretty staggering with my EB I get over 100km a tank more range with premium gas.

I do know that the ecoboost is NOT a flex fuel engine. The stock injectors may not be up to the task with E85 I don't know... but I do know that a few builders online have said the eco is best on premium 100% gas even in its stock configuration.

The new generation high compression direct injection turbo charged engines are totally different that the older multi port low compression types that were sold in the 90s and early 2000s. The timing has to be significantly better and you are really depending on the computer to monitor for predetonation to keep things from burning up. My personal observation is that the vast majority of blown ecos are a result of tuning beyond what the ECU can properly monitor and or control when it comes to predetonation. I've seen reports that some tuners are actually shutting off the knock sensor signal in order to get their high output tunes to run without throwing a CEL. I think (just my layman opinion) we are going to see this reflected in the next gen 3.5 eco with more advanced fuel mapping and probably much better ECU monitoring capabilities. How this relates to fuel is that the higher output DI engines are much more sensitive to fuel octane and composition than older multi port systems that were tuned to run richer and less efficient as a buffer.

So far clean premium gas is working well in my truck.

 

[lil red 02]

I think all I can get is 89 non ethanol so I guess I will try that

 

[slothman]

Could be the local gas here but the difference between running premium no ethanol vs regular 10% stuff is pretty staggering with my EB I get over 100km a tank more range with premium gas.

I do know that the ecoboost is NOT a flex fuel engine. The stock injectors may not be up to the task with E85 I don't know... but I do know that a few builders online have said the eco is best on premium 100% gas even in its stock configuration.

The new generation high compression direct injection turbo charged engines are totally different that the older multi port low compression types that were sold in the 90s and early 2000s. The timing has to be significantly better and you are really depending on the computer to monitor for predetonation to keep things from burning up. My personal observation is that the vast majority of blown ecos are a result of tuning beyond what the ECU can properly monitor and or control when it comes to predetonation. I've seen reports that some tuners are actually shutting off the knock sensor signal in order to get their high output tunes to run without throwing a CEL. I think (just my layman opinion) we are going to see this reflected in the next gen 3.5 eco with more advanced fuel mapping and probably much better ECU monitoring capabilities. How this relates to fuel is that the higher output DI engines are much more sensitive to fuel octane and composition than older multi port systems that were tuned to run richer and less efficient as a buffer.

So far clean premium gas is working well in my truck.

straight e85 would not work well with the injectors and FP. However E30 should be no problem. In fact, the stock ECU can make changes to compensate for up to E20. If you want E30 you have to tune for it to correct the fuel trims and AFR, or else it will be too lean.

 

[Rutt3.5]

I can't say it enough. The E30 tune from Torrie@Unleashed absolutely rocks. I can still manage 17 average on it, and the boost ramps up fast.

 

[lil red 02]

I dont even think we have e30 around here.

 

[Rutt3.5]

I dont even think we have e30 around here.

If you're good at basic math, figure 30% of your mix is e85, and the rest 91 or 93.
Ex: I usually fill up after using around 30 gallons to make it easy. I fill up with 10 gallons of e85 first, and the rest 91. The little cushion there is for the 'up to' 10% ethanol that may be in the 91. Then I drive for a while until things settle. Then I log it for Torrie to look at. If there are any discrepancies, he'll tell me or adjust the tune accordingly.

 

[Woofer700]

Rutt3.5------are you saying, you log and possibly retune/adjust on every tank full???

 

[Rutt3.5]

Rutt3.5------are you saying, you log and possibly retune/adjust on every tank full???

No, but I do log as often as I can. I'm getting good enough at it now that I can spot a potential problem. If I see something odd, I send that log to Torrie. I've only had 5 revisions thus far.

 

[Woofer700]

Ah ok. I get it.
Cause I was thinking, I fill every 2 weeks, and would need to re-tune twice a month. Lol not doing that.
Really like what your doing with your truck…making it the best it can be, for what you have, and making it better as you go.
Great job.

 

[Mike Tritle]

It also deteriorates fuel lines and does other stuff. But I already filled up with ethanol gas so maybe next time I will try it.

This is one of the several myths of ethanol. I've done a bunch of research and testing independently and have found none of this to be true. Let's talk about another...

Source of Moisture:
While alcohols in general are quite hydroscopic, once the water is absorbed it does not separate by itself.Ethanol will absorb 100% of itself with water by volume. That means for 10 gallons of ethanol to fully absorb to the point of phase separation, you must have more than 20 gallons of combined solution. If your tank or container is full, it cannot absorb. This is simple physics, folk. In fact, if you're using E10 which is what most gasoline blends are today, your fuel system will by dryer than it would by adding a bottle of gas dryer products to a full tank. Benefit is that the water is absorbed before it becomes a problem by settling to the bottom of the tank as it would in pure gasoline.

Rots Tanks and Fuel Lines:
Unless you're using natural rubber for fuel lines, nope. Current neoprene and plastic lines are all but impervious to deterioration buy ethanol or gasoline. Methanol is a completely different story. But we're not running that. The car pictured below, while not actually a flex fuel vehicle, has been on E85 since 2004 using auto parts store brake line for fuel line, the original tank and still has all the original fuel hoses at all the connections to pump, pressure regulator and carb that were installed now 12 years ago. (The fixed mixture nature of the carburetor prevents it from running various mixes) Still soft and supple but they well be replaced this year as a maintenance item. Every 10 years is best even on straight gas but I did want to stretch is a bit for purposes like this!

Eats Cork Gaskets:
Actually this one is true. The same benefit you get from its solvent characteristics keeping your system dry and clean does eat glues associated with cork gaskets. However, most performance carburetors and fuel injection systems do not use cork gaskets.

If your fuel does become contaminated then it is best to drain and discard. Reason being is that saturated ethanol will indeed cause a lean mixture condition. If your injectors reach their limit you will have less than satisfying results. So, if you're using E85 to enhance your octane rating just keep the tank full if your truck will sit for an extended period of time. Don't leave room for the bad stuff to come in! However, if you find your sealed fuel system is overly saturated with moisture, you've got somebody relieving themselves in your gas tank!

 

[lil red 02]

That is very nice but my small engine mechanics will disagree with that. Maybe its adding the 2 stroke oil or watever but they say only use 100% gas since the high rpms and it does deteriorate the fuel lines in them. Im not a mechanical person but I listen to the people who try and save me money and I have seen it first hand in my boats, which is why I had to swap to new ethanol safe fuel lines JMO and all my mechanics

 

[Woofer700]

I don't run ethanol. Reading through this thread, I'm reading the same things, as what was being said 15 years go. It will rot your fuel lines, plug up your fuel filters, and all the blah blah blah. I really believe we have gone past all the big oil hype on problems associated with ethanol. Bout the only problem or problems I have with ethanol is, my mpg goes down, and I don't think it should be government subsidized. Pretty much every company has to live or die, based on their Brand. It's time ethanol corporations stood on their own feet. And not mine.
I'm sure I may catch some hell now.
But I really think the equipment we buy or have bought in the last 8-10 years has the correct hoses, fuel tanks, primer bulbs, and what not, to handle ethanol. The state of Minnesota is mandated ethanol. I don't know of any more states, probably more.
Just run the fuel that fits your budget. I promise I won't starve your children or take away your parents meds. Again, same old blah blah blah BS for the last 50 years.

 

[lil red 02]

Your opinion and thats fine, but I have seen a difference in my 2 stoke equipment. I will definitely run non ethanol in that stuff, you run what you want in yours.
As far as the ecoboost I do know it will run fine off it but I was aking for what was better. I didnt want this to be a political thread or anger to be insued. I do know theres a difference and have seen first hand.

 

[slothman]

E85 can definitely hurt injectors and fuel pumps if they aren't E85 compatible. However I doubt E30 would cause any issues because it is much more "diluted".

 

[Raiderfan1890]

I've heard that small engine myth before when they try to sell you those little cans of pure gas. My weedeater and chain saw sit months or longer and fire up every time. I guess they didn't get the memo...

 

[Sirikenewtron]

I've heard that small engine myth before when they try to sell you those little cans of pure gas. My weedeater and chain saw sit months or longer and fire up every time. I guess they didn't get the memo...

Same here man, lawn mower will sit for at least 5 months with a tank of 87 10% ethanol, when I break it out in spring it usually fires up first pull

 

[Grim Reaper]

Same here man, lawn mower will sit for at least 5 months with a tank of 87 10% ethanol, when I break it out in spring it usually fires up first pull

DITTO!

Being an "old-timer" I've heard the myths decades ago. The comment that newer vehicles have upgraded fuel lines are correct to handle higher levels of ethanol is also correct.

Old vehicles were susceptible to ethanol, but in low concentrations (10% or less) there is also no "ill effects".

That is why many places (our province) limits ethanol to no more than 10%, so there isn't any issues with the older vehicles. Personally, I wouldn't care if they increased the ethanol to 20% for higher octane ratings and the guys with "older cars" could chose run either lower ethanol fuels ... or even non-ethanol (Chevron 94) which caters to the "older vehicles".

PS: In the old days if water got into our fuel, we often would add ethanol or methyl hydrate to help clean out the water from the fuel. Worked well in low concentrations.

PPS: In my 2stroke Weedwacker and 4stroke lawnmower, I use 87 Octane with up to 10% ethanol. (And please note, our fuel pumps at all the gas stations says "IT MAY CONTAIN UP TO 10% Ethanol". This doesn't mean it will contain 10% ethanol. The newer pumps take 87, 89 and 91 from the same tank, and then adds enough ethanol to get the desired octane rating. So the 87 may have little or no ethanol and the 91 nearly 10%.

 

[KB9VBT]

This is one of the several myths of ethanol. I've done a bunch of research and testing independently and have found none of this to be true. Let's talk about another...

Source of Moisture:
While alcohols in general are quite hydroscopic, once the water is absorbed it does not separate by itself.Ethanol will absorb 100% of itself with water by volume. That means for 10 gallons of ethanol to fully absorb to the point of phase separation, you must have more than 20 gallons of combined solution. If your tank or container is full, it cannot absorb. This is simple physics, folk. In fact, if you're using E10 which is what most gasoline blends are today, your fuel system will by dryer than it would by adding a bottle of gas dryer products to a full tank. Benefit is that the water is absorbed before it becomes a problem by settling to the bottom of the tank as it would in pure gasoline.

Rots Tanks and Fuel Lines:
Unless you're using natural rubber for fuel lines, nope. Current neoprene and plastic lines are all but impervious to deterioration buy ethanol or gasoline. Methanol is a completely different story. But we're not running that. The car pictured below, while not actually a flex fuel vehicle, has been on E85 since 2004 using auto parts store brake line for fuel line, the original tank and still has all the original fuel hoses at all the connections to pump, pressure regulator and carb that were installed now 12 years ago. (The fixed mixture nature of the carburetor prevents it from running various mixes) Still soft and supple but they well be replaced this year as a maintenance item. Every 10 years is best even on straight gas but I did want to stretch is a bit for purposes like this!

Eats Cork Gaskets:
Actually this one is true. The same benefit you get from its solvent characteristics keeping your system dry and clean does eat glues associated with cork gaskets. However, most performance carburetors and fuel injection systems do not use cork gaskets.

If your fuel does become contaminated then it is best to drain and discard. Reason being is that saturated ethanol will indeed cause a lean mixture condition. If your injectors reach their limit you will have less than satisfying results. So, if you're using E85 to enhance your octane rating just keep the tank full if your truck will sit for an extended period of time. Don't leave room for the bad stuff to come in! However, if you find your sealed fuel system is overly saturated with moisture, you've got somebody relieving themselves in your gas tank!

View attachment 46993 View attachment 46994

Do some more research! Moisture level is wrong! I have pumped out to many fuel tanks and I know it's more closer to 30% moisture. It does dissolve fuel lines. Not to the point of them disappearing but will get soft and the inside of them aroid. I also know fuel dispensers made for E85 do not hold up. I also know the company I work for refuses to sell anything more than 10% ethanol because of all the trouble with it