[BigRob]

@Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Sounds pretty promising

 

[Stevec1129]

@Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Sounds pretty promising

I have been working with my dealer and Ford on this. From what I'm told, mine didn't have the pcm update for the cam phaser rattle; 21n08 applies to trucks that have had this cam phaser update. Please keep me posted on yours.

 

[RDuval]

I have a 2019 Screw 3.5 with towing package, 40k on it. The chugging and vibration are driving me nuts! Dealer and Ford says "that' normal for that model" but mine did not do that when I bought it or I would have never bought it!

Watching this thread... I love my truck but....

 

[RDuval]

2019 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed transmission and 28k miles. I have a shudder that I believe is torque converter or driveline/transmission related. There are several symptoms that I don't know if they're related.

The main shudder is under light acceleration, primarily in 10th gear about 45-47mph, especially if there is a slight incline and you increase the throttle. It'll continue to shudder up to about 55mph. It'll also do it on a slight incline in 7th gear around 30mph almost as noticeably. Primary feedback seems to be through the wheel but I've also ridden in the truck as a passenger and can still easily notice it. Time of year doesn't seem to have any effect and I replaced plugs gapped at .028 also to no avail. I don't believe it is driveshaft related because it stops completely by downshifting or by accelerating more aggressively through these speeds. This is by no means something I would consider violent though, just a light shudder of the entire vehicle. I really don't think it's tire related.

Similar feeling that isn't as easy to replicate is taking off normally from a stoplight I feel a slight shudder like previously described right after one of the gear changes but I can't nail down which one exactly, 6th maybe? Feels like it could be when the torque converter locks up.

The final symptom is not much of an issue now in the summer but when I leave work when the truck has sat cold all day around 10-20 degrees I'll be leaving nice and easy to let everything warm up and it has skipped from 1st to 4th with a very noticeable delay followed by a hard shift into gear (people behind me wondering why I'm not accelerating faster type of thing). This has only happened a few times in the two winters I've owned the truck. When the temperatures are warmer in the 60-70s type thing it has also done a slow hesitation shift after sitting for a few hours but not near as bad. Both of these cases are the first, maybe second time shifting through the gears after startup.

Seems to me all of these things could be torque converter but I don't know for sure. Need warranty work done so I'll likely be heading to the dealer in the next few weeks but looking for some advice ahead of time.

I have exactly the same thing with 2019 Screw 3.5. Driving me nuts...My dealer is useless...

 

[snakebitten]

If "resetting" the truck with Forscan actually removes the symptoms, wouldn't that indicate that the transmission CAN behave without the problem? Thus if the software strategy could be LOCKED to that particular state, rather than changing again during the so-called "learning process", the symptoms would not reappear.

If that theory held up to being plausible, then I wish I knew enough about what parameters were truly being adjusted in the learning process. You could possibly get a snapshot of the table values before the symptoms reappeared and then another snapshot afterwards, and compare.

But honestly, if it really is just software parameters, and not faulty components, then I would just manually avoid the transmission mode(s) that used the troublesome parameters. Or put another way, if I wasn't willing to pay a transmission tuning guru to dial it in to MY liking, then I would avoid the irritation by choosing an oem strategy that eliminates, or at least diminishes the symptoms. (So called Sport Mode, for example. Which isn't technically anything to do with "Sport", but rather it's MOSTLY a different shifting strategy)

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[BigRob]

My service appointment was this morning to have 21N08 preformed. So far I've only driven 20 miles so my sample size is still small but it's most definitely improved. The first thing I noticed is under this light 'tip-in' acceleration it seems to hold gears longer. It was incredibly eager to upshift to 10th gear before as early as 42-45mph and now it instead used 8th at that speed. That's a welcomed change for me regardless. I'm not sure if this hides the problem by avoiding the low rpm in a given gear or if something else changed in conjunction with this...either way I'm not sure I care if it's fixed.

I watched parts of a Youtube video about 21N08 and it seemed like there was a choice/prompt for the technician when reprogramming the PCM if he was reprogramming for shudder. His comment was you could get two programs. One would be to have strategy 'A' from the first reprogram regarding cam phasers earlier this year and if that generated a shudder you reprogram again with an entirely different strategy, strategy 'B' to correct the shudder. Per usual, taken with a grain of salt from Youtube but he was a service tech for Ford. Seems worthwhile to try it regardless since it's such an easy thing to do, but I don't know if other's mileage will vary.

Either way I'll try to update again in a few days or week from now, my daily commute has a few trouble spots every time. If it's fixed or not it should be pretty clear within a short amount of time. I'm not sure how all of the adaptive learning plays into this so I'll reserve final judgement for now.

 

[snakebitten]

Excellent update post. Thanks

I just wish that Ford would separate the shifting strategy between ECO and Normal by a wider margin.
Say... Half-way between Eco & "Sport".

Since Ford defaults the truck to Normal mode, it IS by far the most important mode to get right because human nature results in the vast majority of drivers just living in default.

I look at it completely different. (That's probably because of motorcycle technology that has for many more years offered various "modes" for the driver, and since motorcycles involve input from all four limbs, a motorcyclists is less likely to ignore all the options available) Ford intentionally provided me 5 or 6 shifting strategies. I assume they WANT me to be happy and they have covered the bases. If the default strategy was my favorite, then fine. But in my last 2 trucks with the 10r80 transmission, the default strategy is just not polished enough to be the preferred strategy.



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[BigRob]

Excellent update post. Thanks

I just wish that Ford would separate the shifting strategy between ECO and Normal by a wider margin.
Say... Half-way between Eco & "Sport".

Since Ford defaults the truck to Normal mode, it IS by far the most important mode to get right because human nature results in the vast majority of drivers just living in default.

I look at it completely different. (That's probably because of motorcycle technology that has for many more years offered various "modes" for the driver, and since motorcycles involve input from all four limbs, a motorcyclists is less likely to ignore all the options available) Ford intentionally provided me 5 or 6 shifting strategies. I assume they WANT me to be happy and they have covered the bases. If the default strategy was my favorite, then fine. But in my last 2 trucks with the 10r80 transmission, the default strategy is just not polished enough to be the preferred strategy.



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I may start to get somewhat off topic here but I've also wished for somewhat of a different setup to drive modes. I view the drive modes along the lines of 'I'm going to change to this drive mode for an isolated case I'm having now' i.e. tow haul mode for my trailer or its snowing so I'll use slippery. By the same logic I follow there, my sport mode is to pass that person, have some fun, etc. I think first on my list is remembering the mode. It bothers me that it defaults out of tow haul after a restart, the TBC/computer remembers but it won't stay in tow/haul? The same for sport mode if that's the mode you most prefer to use.

I think it's this mentality that makes me think sport isn't the best for daily driving, I only use it aggressively. I've never given it a shot where I'm driving 'normally' so I feel like the revs stay really high, longer then I'd like after accelerating.

A potential solution I had was a sport and sport+ mode or something. Sport raises shift points a little bit, downshift a little quicker and maybe even help with sponge pedal throttle response. Sport+ would be all out. Hold maximum revs and whatever else it may do.

 

[snakebitten]

Nothing can stop you from trying "Sport" mode but driving "Normal".

Many folks here are probably sick of my diatribe on the labels Ford chose to give each transmission strategy (mode), but you switching to "Sport" to make an aggressive move kinda proves my point! Our brain is so willing to be influenced by a word.

My argument that the WORD Sport is a ridiculous label is that with the 10r80 specifically it is the strategy that uses the 10r80 the MOST normal. It actually uses the 10-speed as a 10-speed. It uses SECOND gear. (and 4th). Why wouldn't 2nd gear be a normal gear in sequence?
And it treats 8 like an overdrive ratio, because it IS overdrive. Literally. 9 & 10 are super-overdrive and it's wonderful to have them. But why use them when they aren't called for? Like at 45mph.

I'm OK with 9&10 if the truck discovers that I have cruise control on AND I have stayed steady-state for a considerable amount of time. But dang if so called "Normal" doesn't get to 10 as aggressively as possible even on a short excursion.

Again, I'm OK with the strategy labeled Normal existing. It is one of the strategies provided. But calling it Normal, and worse, DEFAULTING to it, leads to a lot of people complaining about "the 10-speed". It's not an elegant strategy and it isn't the best representation of how awesome this drivetrain can transport its cargo. Lol

Alas, I can actually just have my way with the click of a button. So I SHOULD just get over it. [emoji1787][emoji2957]

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[2019 f150]

My stock 2019 with 13,000 miles was shuddering when it would lug down. It kind of developed over a period of time. I was using 87 octane fuel. I filled up with 93 octane and dumped in 2 bottles of chevron fuel system cleaner and then ran it hard a few times throughout that 36 gallon tank of fuel. Doing all that seemed to solve the problem. I normally putt around to get the best fuel economy i can so i think the thing just needed cleaned out.

 

[alan.osman]

Ok, I'm joining in on this. I recently purchased a used 2019 F150 5.0L Supercab XLT 8ft bed, with 59K on the clock. I was so happy initially, but I began to notice that it had a cyclical vibration that I feel under the seat, through the pedals when the vehicle is running between 40 and 65MPH and while the engine RPM is around 1100 RPM. It is worse when I am cornering or going up a hill. Initially, when I purchased the truck, I thought it was the wheels. I had them re-balanced twice and rotated tires and it didn't resolve the vibration. Eventually, I took it to the local Ford dealership and they said it was the torque converter. It took them 3 weeks to replace it, and when I got it back it was leaking transmission fluid and the vibration was still there. Took it back, they fixed the leak, and decided to drive it some more. Eventually, after a month, it was bugging me so much, I took it to a different dealership. After some back and forth, they were telling me "it was a truck" and "I should have more load in the back" and this might be the reason why I feel the vibration. I had not experienced this in my previous F150s at all so I was a little against the idea that this could be that lack of load was the issue. I then had some more back and forth discussion with the dealership about the driveshaft and they said as a courtesy, they would go ahead and replace that. After replacing it, it made a slight difference but the cyclical vibration was still there. They suggested I replace the tires and that my tires could be at fault. I have not done this yet, but instead,

I then went to see a good friend of mine that has his own garage and works on transmissions. I discovered that he does under warranty Ford dealership transmission repair jobs and he began to show me some of the 10-speed transmissions problems he has worked on. Most of what he gets was F150 transmissions. I was shocked to learn how problematic some of these have been. It seems that the interior of the transmission has a huge aluminum cylinder with very small tolerances. If any component falls out of tolerance within the transmission casing, things start to go bad. He showed me shavings of aluminum from one to cracked casing on another. And these were relatively new vehicles. Now it's not to say that every F150 out there has this issue, but it sure feels like they have some poor manufacturing issues.

Anyway, we are now looking at ways to get the transmission repaired under the factory warranty. He suspects that the center shaft that runs through the transmission probably has wear and this is causing the vibration.

In the pictures below (NOTE, this is not my transmission case), what you see here is another customer's Ford F150 10-speed. This one has a crack in the casing caused by what the customer reported as a shudder. The inner cylinder on the left was rubbing up against the transmission case on the right. You can't see it very well, so I lightened the photo and zoomed in. That is part of the transmission case that broke off inside because of the friction and aluminum's low heat threshold. The cylinder on the left has some markings from where it was rubbing. He thinks my transmission is on the way towards having a similar problem like this, except it, just hasn't cracked the casing yet. He also said that some of the rings on the center rod (the third photo) deteriorate and this is what causes the imbalance and shift delays. I'll be back to let you know what we find when he cracks open mine.

 

[snakebitten]

1100 rpms is TORTURE on so many components, in my opinion.
I despise the oem strategy that is SO dedicated to fuel mileage that it is in conflict with the long-term life span of components.

It's an automatic transmission that requires a driver's input to protect it. The Ecoboost motor as well.
I lock out gears to insure I'm not allowing unnecessary burden on the drivetrain.

Ever ride a 10-speed bicycle and try to pedal at too tall of a gear ratio?
There's some number of Rpms that our thigh muscles are happiest. The gear ratio that matches that RPM is the least stressful to our leg-motor.

Same, in my opinion with the 10r80
Cruising at 1100 or even 1400 is a strain that is easily avoided. I avoid it. I can FEEEEEL how much happier the truck is at say..... 1800rpms. Even happier at 2000+

Gas is cheaper than drivetrains

 

[BigRob]

Very interesting to see and hear about those different issues in the 10 speed. It's been months since my last update after having the software flash performed by the Ford garage. My initial thoughts still hold true about it, it most definitely is better after having that flash performed.

I still have the thought that the 'fix' was somewhat of a cover up, but I don't know that for sure. It seems like there is still a slight vibration like there used to be, but it isn't as prevalent because of the new transmission strategy not holding gears at such a low rpm. This vibration is so slight it could easily be a slight out of balance in the driveshaft/tires/etc. so who knows for sure.

Looking forward to an update @alan.osman

 

[Sirikenewtron]

2019 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed transmission and 28k miles. I have a shudder that I believe is torque converter or driveline/transmission related. There are several symptoms that I don't know if they're related.

The main shudder is under light acceleration, primarily in 10th gear about 45-47mph, especially if there is a slight incline and you increase the throttle. It'll continue to shudder up to about 55mph. It'll also do it on a slight incline in 7th gear around 30mph almost as noticeably. Primary feedback seems to be through the wheel but I've also ridden in the truck as a passenger and can still easily notice it. Time of year doesn't seem to have any effect and I replaced plugs gapped at .028 also to no avail. I don't believe it is driveshaft related because it stops completely by downshifting or by accelerating more aggressively through these speeds. This is by no means something I would consider violent though, just a light shudder of the entire vehicle. I really don't think it's tire related.

Similar feeling that isn't as easy to replicate is taking off normally from a stoplight I feel a slight shudder like previously described right after one of the gear changes but I can't nail down which one exactly, 6th maybe? Feels like it could be when the torque converter locks up.

The final symptom is not much of an issue now in the summer but when I leave work when the truck has sat cold all day around 10-20 degrees I'll be leaving nice and easy to let everything warm up and it has skipped from 1st to 4th with a very noticeable delay followed by a hard shift into gear (people behind me wondering why I'm not accelerating faster type of thing). This has only happened a few times in the two winters I've owned the truck. When the temperatures are warmer in the 60-70s type thing it has also done a slow hesitation shift after sitting for a few hours but not near as bad. Both of these cases are the first, maybe second time shifting through the gears after startup.

Seems to me all of these things could be torque converter but I don't know for sure. Need warranty work done so I'll likely be heading to the dealer in the next few weeks but looking for some advice ahead of time.

you may have mentioned in here somewhere, haven’t read through all the comments yet, did you happen to get the pcm update 21b10? Curious because you being in 10th gear at such low MPH and shudder Are also both side effects of people who had issues with that update


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[RDuval]

I'm still waiting for my reprogram back to the original and for the phaser replacement (no parts for months) but I wanted to mention to the group that much, if not all, of the vibration goes away when it's below freezing outside and the truck is cold. It's definitely at it's worst in the heat of the summer and in the winter, as I drive the truck on any given day it gets worse (presumably as the mounts warm up).

I'm not saying that's a cause of the vibration, just that, whatever the actual cause is, clearly the softness of the motor and/or tranny mounts definitely has an effect on what I feel or don't feel in my butt as shudder or vibration.

 

[3ddrafterman]

2019 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed transmission and 28k miles. I have a shudder that I believe is torque converter or driveline/transmission related. There are several symptoms that I don't know if they're related.

The main shudder is under light acceleration, primarily in 10th gear about 45-47mph, especially if there is a slight incline and you increase the throttle. It'll continue to shudder up to about 55mph. It'll also do it on a slight incline in 7th gear around 30mph almost as noticeably. Primary feedback seems to be through the wheel but I've also ridden in the truck as a passenger and can still easily notice it. Time of year doesn't seem to have any effect and I replaced plugs gapped at .028 also to no avail. I don't believe it is driveshaft related because it stops completely by downshifting or by accelerating more aggressively through these speeds. This is by no means something I would consider violent though, just a light shudder of the entire vehicle. I really don't think it's tire related.

Similar feeling that isn't as easy to replicate is taking off normally from a stoplight I feel a slight shudder like previously described right after one of the gear changes but I can't nail down which one exactly, 6th maybe? Feels like it could be when the torque converter locks up.

The final symptom is not much of an issue now in the summer but when I leave work when the truck has sat cold all day around 10-20 degrees I'll be leaving nice and easy to let everything warm up and it has skipped from 1st to 4th with a very noticeable delay followed by a hard shift into gear (people behind me wondering why I'm not accelerating faster type of thing). This has only happened a few times in the two winters I've owned the truck. When the temperatures are warmer in the 60-70s type thing it has also done a slow hesitation shift after sitting for a few hours but not near as bad. Both of these cases are the first, maybe second time shifting through the gears after startup.

Seems to me all of these things could be torque converter but I don't know for sure. Need warranty work done so I'll likely be heading to the dealer in the next few weeks but looking for some advice ahead of time.

I realize this thread is nearly a year old but still wanted to chime in. I have a 2022 F150 STX 2.7 ecoboost that is exhibiting almost the exact same transmission issues. Truck had 40 miles on it when I took possession and was silky smooth up to about 2000 miles when the shudder started. Now has 4200 miles and is getting progressively worse. As stated elsewhere in this thread, passengers are starting to notice it. Haven't had time to get to the dealer yet, but I will. Going to give Ford 3 chances to fix it. If they don't it will get traded, and it wont be for another Ford. So far my truck is not living up to the F150 hype. Very Disappointed in Ford so far.

 

[snakebitten]

I realize this thread is nearly a year old but still wanted to chime in. I have a 2022 F150 STX 2.7 ecoboost that is exhibiting almost the exact same transmission issues. Truck had 40 miles on it when I took possession and was silky smooth up to about 2000 miles when the shudder started. Now has 4200 miles and is getting progressively worse. As stated elsewhere in this thread, passengers are starting to notice it. Haven't had time to get to the dealer yet, but I will. Going to give Ford 3 chances to fix it. If they don't it will get traded, and it wont be for another Ford. So far my truck is not living up to the F150 hype. Very Disappointed in Ford so far.

The first thing to do is a little troubleshooting that is really really easy.

Is the shudder only in gears 8,9,10?

If so, does switching to Sport Mode alleviate, or at least reduce the shudder considerably?

Run a few test and let us know.

 

[RDuval]

I'm still waiting for my reprogram back to the original and for the phaser replacement (no parts for months) but I wanted to mention to the group that much, if not all, of the vibration goes away when it's below freezing outside and the truck is cold. It's definitely at it's worst in the heat of the summer and in the winter, as I drive the truck on any given day it gets worse (presumably as the mounts warm up).

I'm not saying that's a cause of the vibration, just that, whatever the actual cause is, clearly the softness of the motor and/or tranny mounts definitely has an effect on what I feel or don't feel in my butt as shudder or vibration.

Mine's exactly the same, don't notice it in winter (below freezing in Ontario, Canada) but it's horrible in the summer on a hot day on the highway. My dealer says there's a potential fix, it's the valve bodies in the tranny with the torque converter lockup valve sticking. I hope that's true. Unfortunately although they have the parts in stock they are backordered on tranny fluid!!!! LOL

 

[RDuval]

Very interesting to see and hear about those different issues in the 10 speed. It's been months since my last update after having the software flash performed by the Ford garage. My initial thoughts still hold true about it, it most definitely is better after having that flash performed.

I still have the thought that the 'fix' was somewhat of a cover up, but I don't know that for sure. It seems like there is still a slight vibration like there used to be, but it isn't as prevalent because of the new transmission strategy not holding gears at such a low rpm. This vibration is so slight it could easily be a slight out of balance in the driveshaft/tires/etc. so who knows for sure.

Looking forward to an update @alan.osman

It actuallly makes sense that it could be thr transmission lockup valve in the valve body causing this problem. If it's locking/unlocking all the time... I'm waiting on mine to be service inthe next week or so.

 

[Chainsaw]

My 19 eb did the same thing,took it to ford and they are replacing the valve body and torque converter,hopefully its fixed when I get it back