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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
@Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Sounds pretty promising
 

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@Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Sounds pretty promising
I have been working with my dealer and Ford on this. From what I'm told, mine didn't have the pcm update for the cam phaser rattle; 21n08 applies to trucks that have had this cam phaser update. Please keep me posted on yours.
 

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I have a 2019 Screw 3.5 with towing package, 40k on it. The chugging and vibration are driving me nuts! Dealer and Ford says "that' normal for that model" but mine did not do that when I bought it or I would have never bought it!

Watching this thread... I love my truck but....
 

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2019 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed transmission and 28k miles. I have a shudder that I believe is torque converter or driveline/transmission related. There are several symptoms that I don't know if they're related.

The main shudder is under light acceleration, primarily in 10th gear about 45-47mph, especially if there is a slight incline and you increase the throttle. It'll continue to shudder up to about 55mph. It'll also do it on a slight incline in 7th gear around 30mph almost as noticeably. Primary feedback seems to be through the wheel but I've also ridden in the truck as a passenger and can still easily notice it. Time of year doesn't seem to have any effect and I replaced plugs gapped at .028 also to no avail. I don't believe it is driveshaft related because it stops completely by downshifting or by accelerating more aggressively through these speeds. This is by no means something I would consider violent though, just a light shudder of the entire vehicle. I really don't think it's tire related.

Similar feeling that isn't as easy to replicate is taking off normally from a stoplight I feel a slight shudder like previously described right after one of the gear changes but I can't nail down which one exactly, 6th maybe? Feels like it could be when the torque converter locks up.

The final symptom is not much of an issue now in the summer but when I leave work when the truck has sat cold all day around 10-20 degrees I'll be leaving nice and easy to let everything warm up and it has skipped from 1st to 4th with a very noticeable delay followed by a hard shift into gear (people behind me wondering why I'm not accelerating faster type of thing). This has only happened a few times in the two winters I've owned the truck. When the temperatures are warmer in the 60-70s type thing it has also done a slow hesitation shift after sitting for a few hours but not near as bad. Both of these cases are the first, maybe second time shifting through the gears after startup.

Seems to me all of these things could be torque converter but I don't know for sure. Need warranty work done so I'll likely be heading to the dealer in the next few weeks but looking for some advice ahead of time.
I have exactly the same thing with 2019 Screw 3.5. Driving me nuts...My dealer is useless...
 

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2021 Powerboost Platinum FX4 Kodiak Brown
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If "resetting" the truck with Forscan actually removes the symptoms, wouldn't that indicate that the transmission CAN behave without the problem? Thus if the software strategy could be LOCKED to that particular state, rather than changing again during the so-called "learning process", the symptoms would not reappear.

If that theory held up to being plausible, then I wish I knew enough about what parameters were truly being adjusted in the learning process. You could possibly get a snapshot of the table values before the symptoms reappeared and then another snapshot afterwards, and compare.

But honestly, if it really is just software parameters, and not faulty components, then I would just manually avoid the transmission mode(s) that used the troublesome parameters. Or put another way, if I wasn't willing to pay a transmission tuning guru to dial it in to MY liking, then I would avoid the irritation by choosing an oem strategy that eliminates, or at least diminishes the symptoms. (So called Sport Mode, for example. Which isn't technically anything to do with "Sport", but rather it's MOSTLY a different shifting strategy)

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
My service appointment was this morning to have 21N08 preformed. So far I've only driven 20 miles so my sample size is still small but it's most definitely improved. The first thing I noticed is under this light 'tip-in' acceleration it seems to hold gears longer. It was incredibly eager to upshift to 10th gear before as early as 42-45mph and now it instead used 8th at that speed. That's a welcomed change for me regardless. I'm not sure if this hides the problem by avoiding the low rpm in a given gear or if something else changed in conjunction with this...either way I'm not sure I care if it's fixed.

I watched parts of a Youtube video about 21N08 and it seemed like there was a choice/prompt for the technician when reprogramming the PCM if he was reprogramming for shudder. His comment was you could get two programs. One would be to have strategy 'A' from the first reprogram regarding cam phasers earlier this year and if that generated a shudder you reprogram again with an entirely different strategy, strategy 'B' to correct the shudder. Per usual, taken with a grain of salt from Youtube but he was a service tech for Ford. Seems worthwhile to try it regardless since it's such an easy thing to do, but I don't know if other's mileage will vary.

Either way I'll try to update again in a few days or week from now, my daily commute has a few trouble spots every time. If it's fixed or not it should be pretty clear within a short amount of time. I'm not sure how all of the adaptive learning plays into this so I'll reserve final judgement for now.
 

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Excellent update post. Thanks

I just wish that Ford would separate the shifting strategy between ECO and Normal by a wider margin.
Say... Half-way between Eco & "Sport".

Since Ford defaults the truck to Normal mode, it IS by far the most important mode to get right because human nature results in the vast majority of drivers just living in default.

I look at it completely different. (That's probably because of motorcycle technology that has for many more years offered various "modes" for the driver, and since motorcycles involve input from all four limbs, a motorcyclists is less likely to ignore all the options available) Ford intentionally provided me 5 or 6 shifting strategies. I assume they WANT me to be happy and they have covered the bases. If the default strategy was my favorite, then fine. But in my last 2 trucks with the 10r80 transmission, the default strategy is just not polished enough to be the preferred strategy.



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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Excellent update post. Thanks

I just wish that Ford would separate the shifting strategy between ECO and Normal by a wider margin.
Say... Half-way between Eco & "Sport".

Since Ford defaults the truck to Normal mode, it IS by far the most important mode to get right because human nature results in the vast majority of drivers just living in default.

I look at it completely different. (That's probably because of motorcycle technology that has for many more years offered various "modes" for the driver, and since motorcycles involve input from all four limbs, a motorcyclists is less likely to ignore all the options available) Ford intentionally provided me 5 or 6 shifting strategies. I assume they WANT me to be happy and they have covered the bases. If the default strategy was my favorite, then fine. But in my last 2 trucks with the 10r80 transmission, the default strategy is just not polished enough to be the preferred strategy.



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I may start to get somewhat off topic here but I've also wished for somewhat of a different setup to drive modes. I view the drive modes along the lines of 'I'm going to change to this drive mode for an isolated case I'm having now' i.e. tow haul mode for my trailer or its snowing so I'll use slippery. By the same logic I follow there, my sport mode is to pass that person, have some fun, etc. I think first on my list is remembering the mode. It bothers me that it defaults out of tow haul after a restart, the TBC/computer remembers but it won't stay in tow/haul? The same for sport mode if that's the mode you most prefer to use.

I think it's this mentality that makes me think sport isn't the best for daily driving, I only use it aggressively. I've never given it a shot where I'm driving 'normally' so I feel like the revs stay really high, longer then I'd like after accelerating.

A potential solution I had was a sport and sport+ mode or something. Sport raises shift points a little bit, downshift a little quicker and maybe even help with sponge pedal throttle response. Sport+ would be all out. Hold maximum revs and whatever else it may do.
 

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Nothing can stop you from trying "Sport" mode but driving "Normal". :)

Many folks here are probably sick of my diatribe on the labels Ford chose to give each transmission strategy (mode), but you switching to "Sport" to make an aggressive move kinda proves my point! Our brain is so willing to be influenced by a word.

My argument that the WORD Sport is a ridiculous label is that with the 10r80 specifically it is the strategy that uses the 10r80 the MOST normal. It actually uses the 10-speed as a 10-speed. It uses SECOND gear. (and 4th). Why wouldn't 2nd gear be a normal gear in sequence?
And it treats 8 like an overdrive ratio, because it IS overdrive. Literally. 9 & 10 are super-overdrive and it's wonderful to have them. But why use them when they aren't called for? Like at 45mph.

I'm OK with 9&10 if the truck discovers that I have cruise control on AND I have stayed steady-state for a considerable amount of time. But dang if so called "Normal" doesn't get to 10 as aggressively as possible even on a short excursion.

Again, I'm OK with the strategy labeled Normal existing. It is one of the strategies provided. But calling it Normal, and worse, DEFAULTING to it, leads to a lot of people complaining about "the 10-speed". It's not an elegant strategy and it isn't the best representation of how awesome this drivetrain can transport its cargo. Lol

Alas, I can actually just have my way with the click of a button. So I SHOULD just get over it.

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My stock 2019 with 13,000 miles was shuddering when it would lug down. It kind of developed over a period of time. I was using 87 octane fuel. I filled up with 93 octane and dumped in 2 bottles of chevron fuel system cleaner and then ran it hard a few times throughout that 36 gallon tank of fuel. Doing all that seemed to solve the problem. I normally putt around to get the best fuel economy i can so i think the thing just needed cleaned out.
 
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