Anyone have a video or recording of the rattle sound on startup? I wax told today it's my cam phasers and it's part of a TSB.... Any info out there?

Also has anyone ever heard of paying a deductible for warranty work? I don't mean any extended warranty either. For the Powertrain 8yr/80000

 

This was just recently fixed after a 3 week stint at the dealer, by replacing two of the 4 cam phasers. The tech who replaced them, could not visually detect any defect in the phasers that were removed, but I do not know if he opened them up, or knew what to look for, as it was their first time doing this procedure, at least on the 2.7 Ecoboost.

 

Ford doesn't have an 8 yr 80k they have a 5 yr 60k. So that is an extended warranty. And yes it is the phasers.
Just be glad you don't have to come up with $3K to do the repair.

 

Can you just swap the phasers if you are on a budget?

 

I understand saving some coin as much as anybody, but this is NOT somewhere to cut a corner. I'm by far the expert on the inside of these motors, though. Timing chain problems seems to be a leading cause of failure.

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Hello. This is my story.

My engine light went on on my 2013 F150 FX4 3.5L Ecoboost. 105,000KM's, and serviced at the dealer on a regular basis.

I needed an oil change and brought it to the dealer. After 2 hours, I was called and told it was a timing chain issue and that the repair would cost $4,800. They then asked if I was the original owner and said something about - oh, well your warranty is just expired, but we will see what we can do... I am almost sure I have an 80,000KM warranty, but whatever. I said their was no way I was paying $4,800 for a repair to a vehicle when the lease was up in 9-months... The customer service rep then said that sometimes Ford Canada will be helpful and assist with the repair cost.

After hanging up the phone, I phoned the salesperson who I bought the truck off to see if he would have a solution. He just said bring it in and we'll get you a new truck - i.e. we'll get you out of your lease and into a new one. This doesn't surprise me as I have heard from various ppl in the car business that Canadian used vehicles are "all" being bought by American dealers to the strength of the USD relative to the CAD.

I then phone back the customer service rep. Before doing anything, I want to know how much Ford Canada is willing to pitch in. $100? $1,000? more? Well in 2 seconds she says that in similar circumstances customers are paying approximately $600, but that it needs to be approved by Ford Canada.... Good news I guess... Also, they have agreed to waive the $150 diagnostic fee.

Then I start thinking about this... Is Ford really this benevolent? How does $4,800 become $600? Should it be $0? is this a systematic problem... And here I am. 1 of many with the same issue. After some research I seem to see that it is a $3,000 problem not a $4,800 problem. And then to me it seems like a recall is in order... Furthermore, if there was a TSB regarding this issue, why wasn't I told of this during one of my many service stops to the dealer?

In the end, as long as I don't get effed around on price. I think I am going to hand over the Ecoboost and get a V8. On the other hand, if someone else is willing to cash in my buyout, maybe I'll just move on from Ford altogether.

The whole thing seems very sleezy and it just seems like they are trying to avoid the recall and blemish to the Ecoboost brand.

UPDATE:

Looks like it isn't as nefarious as I thought. I was offered AWA. After warranty assistance as I was the original owner of the vehicle.

 

You will be vastly further ahead by going to the V8 - far less problematic.

 

As opposed to what problems?

The coyote is a great engine, no denying that. I love the one in my mustang. But, the ecoboost is a far superior truck engine. The torque curve alone allows it to outstrip the coyote in this application by a mile.

Again, you're advising people to completely avoid this platform, because of an issue that effects only a small number of the thousands of ecoboost equipped trucks. Which, is 60% of all f150's sold since 2011. That other 40% is occupied by three different engine platforms... The sample size being that mush greater will of coarse net more failures. But, when you put that number into the proper perspective, you see how little of the engines actually have that issue. Some us drew the proverbial short straw, myself included, get over it.

Fear monger elsewhere.

 

Yup yup

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So I have a 2012 FX Screw, and mine has made the noise over the years. Recently, it has gotten worse typically when the truck sits for a few days or more. Last week it did it every morning. Friday, it did it when I left for work. The truck sat from 8am to about 1pm, and when I started it, it ticked for just a split second. I know if it would have sat longer, it would have made the noise longer. I really wasn't due for an oil change just yet, but I changed the oil (5w30 full syn) and added a bottle of Lucus synthetic oil stabilizer. I drove the truck for about 25 miles, then it sat from Friday afternoon until 530am Monday morning. I started it Monday, and it purr'ed like a kitten.

I have just shy of 100k miles on it, and it is almost paid off. I really don't want to spend the money to fix it and I was hoping to drive it for sometime paid off. I had made my mind up before I started it Monday that if it makes the noise, I'm trading it in. I know from reading on here that people don't really care for additives, but this seemed to really help. Am I out of the woods?

 

Update: About a months gone by. Made the noise again. Just ordered a raptor...

 

I tried the Lucas stabilizer for synthetic, did absolutely nothing for my truck.

 

Bah - after 6? months of not hearing the rattle, it was back again this morning after truck sat for a day+ in the "cold" 74 degrees and raining in Austin.

 

Very odd that your rattle comes and goes like that. Once mine started, it persisted, each and every start, unless I restarted the motor within 10-15 minutes.

 

Just an update on my post (page 33) - I changed the filter from Mobil1 to NAPA Platinum and the noise has gone away for me. I park nose down (declined) in my driveway and every morning since the Mobil1 was used I had a very bad cold start rattle. When I parked nose up the rattle went away. So I changed the oil and used the NAPA Plat filter this time and the noise is gone. Not saying it's the answer to all your rattle issues, but it sure as heck fixed mine.

 

With the NAPA filter...are you still parking nose up and the noise is gone, or you're able to park nose down and the noise is gone?

 

Nose down and the noise has just about gone away. It's now the same either nose up or down.

 

Update - the noise is a bit more nose down than up with the Napa filter. It's by far better than Mobil1, but not quite as good as the Purolater PureOne filter I used when I first purchased the truck 1 year ago. Maybe I do have the timing chain issue...

 

I meant to say phasers, I had my old Nissan Frontier on my mind where the timing chain went bad....

This is a CPO truck so I'm covered up to 100k I believe. I assume yours locked up? How bad did yours sound before it went? Is this only an issue for the F150 ecoboost variant? I haven't heard about this with any other model. I also own a 2013 Flex Ecoboost and that engine purrs...even with the Mobil1 filter.

I have been thinking about selling it tho to just get a "truck" and not a platinum pickup. My savings can then go toward a 2017 Gt350...

 

... Is this only an issue for the F150 ecoboost variant? I haven't heard about this with any other model. ....

No, it's not just limited to the F150 variant. See my posts just a few pages back, starting at #286.

 

I meant to say phasers, I had my old Nissan Frontier on my mind where the timing chain went bad....

This is a CPO truck so I'm covered up to 100k I believe. I assume yours locked up? How bad did yours sound before it went?

I have been thinking about selling it tho to just get a "truck" and not a platinum pickup. My savings can then go toward a 2017 Gt350...

Mine hydrolocked due to condensate that built up in the intercooler. Definitely further ahead to get a less problematic platform.

 

You hydrolocked from condensation? How much fluid was in there? Lol

I'm sorry, but that's complete bull****. You would have to have a partially filled charge air cooler for that to happen.

The only time I've ever seen that happen is when a meth pump relay got stuck, and the intercooler was filled with a gallon of methanol. Upon startup, the meth slugged the two rear cylinders. Another note, the condensation would not remain once the vehicle stopped. The residual heat from the engine bay would bake the condensation off within minutes.


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You hydrolocked from condensation? How much fluid was in there? Lol

I'm sorry, but that's complete bull****. You would have to have a partially filled charge air cooler for that to happen.

The only time I've ever seen that happen is when a meth pump relay got stuck, and the intercooler was filled with a gallon of methanol. Upon startup, the meth slugged the two rear cylinders. Another note, the condensation would not remain once the vehicle stopped. The residual heat from the engine bay would bake the condensation off within minutes.


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The one guy on here that did a real detailed thread of replacing his engine because it threw a rod did a calculation(he's engineer) that shows it takes a small amount of fluid to get sucked up in this engine to be enough to not digest IE liquid does not compress and breaking the rod off the bottom of piston like everyone has that has blown up. That is of course different than hydrolock, but still important to know.

 

Just throwing this out there - anyone ever try throwing +/- half-can of seafoam in the crankcase and run it for about 100 miles before doing an oil change? I tried it on a maxima with 285k miles and it definitely did something because oil leaks popped up everywhere on that car immediately after. I'm thinking it removed deposits that were sealing potential leaks. Is it feasible that seafoam would clear the plugged gaps in these phasers?

 

Nope - don't do it.

 

You do realize that someone here already did the math on the amount of condensate needed to lock up the engine, right? The answer was actually a very small amount. I would argue that the majority of blown engines are condensate related... Thus the requirement of a weep hole in the intercooler.

 

I would argue that the vast majority are knock related. Creating a boost leak purposely, baffles me... you're not creating enough condensation to warrant draining it. Diesel engines create condensation all the same as the ecoboost. I've seen several powestrokes hydrolock, but not once have I seen one hydrolock from water without being submerged.

I live in one of the most humid climates in the US, and even for me, the condensation issue is almost non existent. You're looking at several ounces of fluid to hydrolock a single cylinder. Water ingestion does not equal hydrolock.




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I'm at a heliport in brazil, I'll watch it when I get some wifi.


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Oh look, the troll chicken little sky is falling elkhart is at it again...guess he had a lot of coffee this past week. I leave for a work trip and come back, log on, and his crap is spewed all across the forum yet again...

 

Yup keep an ear on it and when it starts getting more frequent get it in before the warranty is pooched.

 

I'm pretty sure 90% of these engines will eventually be "one of the bad ones". But the engine is a monster otherwise.

 

90% of the 2011's maybe. Ha ha. To me it's not necessarily the death of a truck cause it is fixable. Just kind of expensive though.

 

78K, $750 in replacement parts

new chain installed

chain stretch comparison

worn intake phasers

tensioner

 

$750 was full parts bill of material from ford directly? did you do all work yourself? interested in how long it took you and how hard. i'm at 82 k and mine still isn't getting worse, happens once every 6 months and the goes back into hiding. but that can't last forever

 

Jar944: congrats to you for getting it done, the job is a PIA in terms of time I know. A few observations/comments:

Mine started rattling occasionally at 60K miles and I replaced it all at 112K miles, never had metal in the oil and never got a code, just wanted piece of mind. I used "3.5L GTDI - COLD START - TICKING/TAPPING OR RATTLE TYPE NOISE- BUILT ON OR BEFORE 5/29/2015 TSB 15-0131" and it specifies new Intake AND Exhaust cam phasers, and it does NOT specify a new tensioner or guides. I went ahead and changed the tensioner too but kept the guides since they looked good. NOTE: the Ford tear down of the Ecoboost engine that got all the media attention and went through a durability torture test: that engine was on the 3rd tensioner tooth when they took it apart. Mine was on the 4th when I took it apart. Yours shows 7 teeth exposed (a LOT more stretch)!! ALSO note, when I put mine back together with new chain, tensioner, Intake and Exhaust VCT Phasers, it reset back to 3 teeth, just like Ford's "Thrashed" engine.. yeah right.

The teeth on your phasers bear some serious witness marks from the chain, clearly yours was stretched to hell.. the teeth on mine just show normal light witness marks, nothing concerning. Why did you choose NOT to change the exhaust VCT phasers? The TSB calls for it? I found it a little odd that the secondary chains weren't spec'd in the TSB and I almost wish I did that too, but they looked perfect and had no slop that concerned me.

Edit to add: the damper/balancer install tool was a PIA to find in stock, OTC 303-102 plus a large socket to fill the gap. Stallion ST-144 is an equivalent tool almost to the OTC tool, saves a few bucks, just know how the damper/balancer goes on before doing it (tip: it doesn't sit flush with the crank snout, manual never states that).

 

For everyone wanting to install the pulley. With the installer use a 1-1/4" iron worker spud wrench. Has the perfect offset for the dampener. AJAX makes them. It's a trick I've been using and it works with little effort. I do recommend changing both phasers, secondary chains and tensioners as well. While it is open also change the VCT solenoids. Will not hurt and they are only 35-40 bucks a piece.

 

Yup crank pulley is a very quick one to get on. I happen to have a spud wrench laying around and it worked better than I ever would have thought. Under a 5 min process. Now taking one off with everything still in your way can be a battle that is rewarding to win. Lots of tools out there better than otc. I actually machined a few sets of new cam holding plates for holding at TDC. If anyone needs a set ever pm me


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Yup crank pulley is a very quick one to get on. I happen to have a spud wrench laying around and it worked better than I ever would have thought. Under a 5 min process. Now taking one off with everything still in your way can be a battle that is rewarding to win. Lots of tools out there better than otc. I actually machined a few sets of new cam holding plates for holding at TDC. If anyone needs a set ever pm me




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I had that same thought, even measured the holders @ the dealer.

 

After catching up on this thread, it sounds like (if you know what you're doing-i don't) honestly, at $750, you're better off doing this yourself. Sounds like Ford will do a bare minimum. If you're in there yourself, you can replace other things that you see, in your opinion, need it while you're in there.

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Looks like I will be doing the timing chain repair myself in a week or two, depending on when all the parts get here. My victim is a 2011 crewcab 4x4, almost 100,000 miles, that I owned since new. I'm planning on replacing everything behind the timing cover, including the water pump. The truck has been pretty good to me, other than the misfire issue (replaced plugs, and then plugs and coils) and this timing chain issue. The only mods are, aftermarket down pipes, straight thru exhaust, leveling kit, 35 inch Toyos MTs. Truck is driven hard, when I'm behind the wheel, and driven very easy when my fiance' is using it. By hard, I mean, street racing anyone willing, and on the speed limiter when on the highway.