Hey all. Like title says, what happens if you just live with the noise? Ford says that's all it is anyway, annoying noise. Does anyone have proof or can share experience where ignoring it caused catastrophic damage (that can be 100% attributed to a noisy vct unit). Thanks!
IGNORING CAM PHASER NOISE.
N8tvMT
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Starters are a fraction of the cost of..... Well, you know.
I'm aware that there's little PROOF of the benefits. But I think the potential far outweighs the burden the starter must carry.
I'm aware that there's little PROOF of the benefits. But I think the potential far outweighs the burden the starter must carry.
I guess the thing I am not intuitively convinced of yet, is....
Whether excessively long engine cranking before starting, just to build some oil pressure before you are firing the engine, is really beneficial for anything? Like, whats the mechanism for this actually helping? That the phasers don't have to do any work or motion of controlling cam timing on a fired engine, before they have full oil pressure? How are they hurt by springing into action before full oil pressure is achieved?
Counter points:
Whether excessively long engine cranking before starting, just to build some oil pressure before you are firing the engine, is really beneficial for anything? Like, whats the mechanism for this actually helping? That the phasers don't have to do any work or motion of controlling cam timing on a fired engine, before they have full oil pressure? How are they hurt by springing into action before full oil pressure is achieved?
Counter points:
- The engine will probably actually build oil pressure faster at 1000rpm or whatever it revs to immediately upon startup, vs the lower ~250rpm of cranking.
- Starter cranking the engine isn't all that smooth, the engine rocks and vibrates a lot. And as shown, we don't have good oil pressure for a full 5 seconds, give or take. So what other kind of wear or harm are we inducing if we start this way every time (or say, just somewhat often) ?
Just a shot, I do not think it's so much about presure as it is filling the lines and pathways that carry the oil after they drain into the oil pan. Cranking an engine with the starter is much lower in RPM than cold idle, resulting in less damage, and your truck isn't fighting the power stroke. KM
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We don't have power strokes - we have Ecoboosts.
You are cruising for a Wisconsin bruising. And I'm going to help him. 😁
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Hey - at least I didn't move the post to another thread! Ha ha!
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Depends on several things. Are you getting any timing related OBDC codes? Does the noise happen only on startup or always? Does the engine run rough? Usually the noisy component under the hood is the high-pressure fuel pump that feeds the direct fuel injection system. The phasers being noisy is curious but more of an issue if any of the above is also happening.
I have a 2011 F150 with the 3.5. Had trouble with the timing chain and phasers at 82000 miles. It was just past my 75000 mile warranty. Paid $2400 for the dealer to fix it. It rattled when I picked it up. I was pissed to say the least. However, they said it's just noise. I now have 215000 on the truck and it still rattles. If I press the accelerator down while starting the engine, and let the oil pressure build the noise isn't as bad. It make real tomorrow but it's been a good truck and engine since the initial timing issue.
So I talked to my brother by another mother today, and asked him if he ever took his truck in to get the phaser job done.
He still drives the 2018 HDPP 3.5 Ecoboost that I special ordered and he purchased when it arrived. It started clacking on coldstarts at about 70,000 miles. The clatter would diminish, according to him, immediately upon changing oil. (Mobile 1 guy) But would return eventually. He switched to the oil I use(d) 0-40, and started doing the flood-start. Said the clatter was much rarer and didn't seem as loud or last as long when it did clack.
I informed him about the CSSP program and the fact that Ford would pitch in a % of the cost, depending on the mileage. But he procrastinated until the program was no longer available. Until today, I thought he still hadn't addressed the dilemma.
Anyways, he said that he DID get the job done, and it turned out it was covered by the extended warranty that he purchased from my dealership. Go figure. In fact, he had the job done at my dealership even though he lives 4 hours away.
I then asked him if he has had ANY issues with the truck since the procedure? Noise, overheating, DTC's,... Anything.
He said the truck has been perfect and it runs as good as new.
It's at 98,000 miles. He had it done around 90,000.
So I guess there's ONE previously unmentioned success story. And it was done at my personal dealership and I didn't have a clue! They also swore that he got the new designed phasers.
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He still drives the 2018 HDPP 3.5 Ecoboost that I special ordered and he purchased when it arrived. It started clacking on coldstarts at about 70,000 miles. The clatter would diminish, according to him, immediately upon changing oil. (Mobile 1 guy) But would return eventually. He switched to the oil I use(d) 0-40, and started doing the flood-start. Said the clatter was much rarer and didn't seem as loud or last as long when it did clack.
I informed him about the CSSP program and the fact that Ford would pitch in a % of the cost, depending on the mileage. But he procrastinated until the program was no longer available. Until today, I thought he still hadn't addressed the dilemma.
Anyways, he said that he DID get the job done, and it turned out it was covered by the extended warranty that he purchased from my dealership. Go figure. In fact, he had the job done at my dealership even though he lives 4 hours away.
I then asked him if he has had ANY issues with the truck since the procedure? Noise, overheating, DTC's,... Anything.
He said the truck has been perfect and it runs as good as new.
It's at 98,000 miles. He had it done around 90,000.
So I guess there's ONE previously unmentioned success story. And it was done at my personal dealership and I didn't have a clue! They also swore that he got the new designed phasers.
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110 Posts
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but why is there not an aftermarket cold oil tank/pump that is operated by a timer solenoid wired to the starter circuit. The pump part of it could be spring pressure activated when the key is turned on. My 16 is still quiet and I use synthetic. Almost 90k now. Oh well. I put on a catch can on it and what a dumb purchase, haven't got a drip out of it yet. Live and learn....
There's a cool old-school coot (I'm allowed to say that with respect because I'm an old coot too) that's a member here, but I haven't seen him post in quite a while.
He was putting some serious though into how to add a pre-oiler system on an Ecoboost.
I was as encouraging as I knew how to be. For selfish reasons admittedly, since I wanted for him to succeed so I could have it too.
He was putting some serious though into how to add a pre-oiler system on an Ecoboost.
I was as encouraging as I knew how to be. For selfish reasons admittedly, since I wanted for him to succeed so I could have it too.
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110 Posts
Old coots unite! I know accumulators been around but I couldn't find one easily adaptable and specfic to modern needs. That's the word. I'll check this one out but frequent synthetic changes seem to be the answer. Not to start an oil war but I use the cheap Walmart brand and fill my Fram filter before installing. I always run it long enough to get hot and do frequent Italian tuneups. Brrr still waiting for warm weather....
It's a status that is well earned.
Anyone can get old.
But you have to live up to the coot!
Anyone can get old.
But you have to live up to the coot!
16s didn't have phaser issues
Your catch can is either installed wrong or of low quality.
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110 Posts
The catch can is an ADD W1 Dual, it didn't seem cheap when I installed it. It kept tripping CEL for pvc circuit sensor on valve cover so I disconnected turbo side and plugged. I checked and rechecked installation, I suspect check valves. Attached is circuit used. May try again when it warms up, but probably not.
Attachments
Honestly, and Ironically, the Gen1 3.5 seems to not suffer from faulty phasers, but rather that really really long chain accentuating the inevitable stretching of a timing chain.
So Ford redesigns the 3.5 Ecoboost and shortens the chain, which seems to have been a good remedy. However then the phasers were introduced as the new weak spot in the ensemble.
This is just my personal overall take on it generally speaking.
So Ford redesigns the 3.5 Ecoboost and shortens the chain, which seems to have been a good remedy. However then the phasers were introduced as the new weak spot in the ensemble.
This is just my personal overall take on it generally speaking.
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