Ok so some may know about this some may not but it is something that is coming on strong with many showings at dealerships across America. So as most know it is timing chains that are prematurely stretching causing this startup noise. The news is that there is updated parts out there to address this and Ford now has a TSB on this issue formally admitting to it being a common problem. I go over it all in this video. There is also a link to just how it sounds in the description of the video on youtube. Hopefully more dealers will be willing to dive into the engine with some guidance from Ford now.
Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB
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makuloco2000
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My chain has been rattling for the last 4 months. I have dropped off at the dealer twice and it did not make the rattle. After going back and forth, I got the dealership to accept videos as evidence. I have full powertrain warranty, and I'm dropping truck off on Monday. But before FORD will authorize the repair, the dealer is supposed to look at oil filter for shavings, verify crankshaft end play is out of spec, and check the cams for scarring and report back. Sounds like they are trying to get out of doing the repair and I'm getting ready to get the shaft. Has anyone else had to go through this bull**** before fix was "authorized"?
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I just ordered two of those “kit” part numbers. If I had to guess ford is selling it as a kit to avoid problems with people ordering one of this and one of that with them not being compatible. I’m thinking what comes in the kit are the same individual parts we order on their own. Keep this updated, but it was back ordered through my non typical parts guy. Placed the order from tasca
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Maybe if the crank and cam are whacked up they will toss in a new motor under warranty. OH WAIT. That would totally benefit you.
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I've always thought the noise came from the tensioner loosing oil prime or pressure after sitting awhile causing the chain to be loose for a moment on start up. The new tensioner looks like it has a ratcheted shaft on it that locks it in place as parts ware. Keeping the chain tight. Is that what that is?
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It was never the tensioner or then chain making the noise it's the phasers themselves.
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Well I just dropped it off this afternoon. Again, I’m afraid I’m getting ready to get the shaft if they check everything they say they are going to and find nothing wrong. I don’t see where the cams would be effected from timing chain stretch. I Will keep you guys posted.
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That is good news. That means they are actually checking the motor out fairly thoroughly.
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I've just started to get the rattle at 105k. Sounds like a fan blade hitting something for a few seconds on cold start.
Any recommendations on taking it into the dealer, eg. what all should I ask for? I've got premium care so I want to make sure everything that can be replaced will be replaced.
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Any recommendations on taking it into the dealer, eg. what all should I ask for? I've got premium care so I want to make sure everything that can be replaced will be replaced.
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Look at page 47 of this thread at the post by rbrown listing timing components he would replace. I asked by dealer for TSB 16-0027 and told them I would provide the additional parts for install. (Oddly the TSB doesn't include things like tensioner and guides etc.) They didn't have a problem with that as long as I provided the parts (or part numbers) and paid the extra hours of labor (which I would estimate at 2 hours). I would also get a water pump while they are in there. They should also be looking at all other components for excessive wear. Also if they perform the TSB, have them change to oil.
From my research **use with caution**
TSB Parts
Actuator
Part Number: AT4Z-6C525-B
Actuator
Part Number: AT4Z-6256-B
Bolt
Part Number: AT4Z-6279-D
Bolt
Part Number: AT4Z-6279-E
Ford Transit-150/250/350 Engine Timing Chain
Part Number: AT4Z-6268-C
Ford Transit-150/250/350 Engine Intake Manifold Gasket
Part Number: AA5Z-9439-A
Valve Cover Gasket
Part Number: BL3Z-6584-A
Valve Cover Gasket
Part Number: BR3Z-6584-B
Seal
Part Number: BL3Z-9E583-B
Gasket
Part Number: BR3Z-8507-C
Ford F-150/Lincoln Mark Lt Engine Water Pump 37.5Mm O-Ring
Part Number: BR3Z-8527-A
Housing Gasket
Part Number: 7T4Z-8590-A
SEAL ASM CRANKSHAFT OIL
Part Number: XW4Z6700AA
Timing Cover Gasket
Part Number: BR3Z-6020-A
Crankshaft Pulley Bolt
Part Number: F5RZ-6A340-B
Sealant - Silicone
Part Number: TA-357-
Remover - Silicone
Part Number: ZC-30-A
Cleaner - Metal Surface
Part Number: ZC-31-B
NON TSB Parts listed by rbrown
2X Control Valve Solenoid
Part Number: AT4Z-6M280-A
2X Control Valve Solenoid
Part Number: AT4Z-6M280-B
2X Secondary Timing Chain
Part Number: AT4Z-6268-A
Primary Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator Engine Timing Chain Tensioner
Part Number: BL3Z-6L266-A
2X Secondary Tensioner
Part Number: AT4Z-6K254-A
Tensioner Arm
Part Number: AT4Z-6B274-A
Tensioner Arm
Part Number: AT4Z-6K255-A
Chain Guide
Part Number: BL3Z-6K297-A
Chain Guide
Part Number: AT4Z-6K297-B
2X Secondary Chain Guide
Part Number: AT4Z-6K297-D
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Did you place this order in the last week?
I HIGHLY recommend NO one orders timing parts based off a post from someone else who doesn’t know the vin, Year, yada.
Props ^^^^^ for taking the time for that. Right on man
Ford changes parts weekly.
Everyone look up via vin and ford parts guy or send your engine builder who builds these motors a message or a call
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Would you recommend getting the non TSB parts done at the same time and about how much should this add to cost($100 deductible thankfully) in terms of parts and labor? Why doesn't Ford include these in the TSB?
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Because ford only wants to pay for what’s needed to make your noise go away. I intentionally have been trying to get my truck to make the noise. I finally did and I could make it repeatable.
First as stated it is the phasers. This I can confirm.
Second, the noise you hear is the phaser “clacking” due to lack of oil or pressure.
I stopped it in 1 second to not hurt the phasers but did it several times. I then confirmed if the issue was what I thought by making it stop. Not saying people can make it go away because damage could be done internally to the phasers, but I know the cause and effect of my experiment.
. Once the problem starts with most people I am guessing, but the more you hear it on cold start the more you wear out internal components in the phasers.
110% always change
all VCT solenoids
All 3 timing chains
All phasers
Guides
Arms
Tensioner
Crank gear (for good measure what’s $25 bucks at this point? Just change it)
Also change the AUX gear
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I did it on my motor but just for a second
How are you able to control how long it does it for? Or are you just advising it only did it briefly? Have any secret squirrel information to limit the rattle duration?
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If you hold down the throttle while turning the key the engine won't start but you will get oil pressure which limits the rattle. rbrown probably knows wether this is a viable long term solution
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Took mine to shop last week for TSB and after checking into several other items, they are sending out adjuster for possibility of replacing engine.
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I just wanted to get back and updated what I received in the 2 “kits” I bought as an experiment.
Everything in them is wrong. Well not everything but the tensioner is wrong, tensioner bolts are wrong (not a big deal, it’s like 89 IN/LB no Tty) and tensioner which must match the proper arm is incorrect arm for tensioner and tensioner to arm.
Confirmed via received 3 ford new oem factory motors to tear down for customers.
1 was a ford Performance crate motor.
1 was a complete long block assembly
1 was a service assembly
***All of the “kits” I ordered on line from companies like tasca, DO NOT have the tensioner I use for my builds**** different arm too now.
It is absurd this is still happening, I have a few customers who are my customers because their motors failed due improper DEALER INSTALLED parts.
If anyone needs a complete and correct timing chain service kit from me, PM me and I’d be happy to put something like that together for a 100% inclusive, and updated parts package. For me to be able to sell this parts set, it’s got to be all the parts in it, not just this and or that. This is likely what it would include off the top of my head
Cam holding tool
New chain idle gear/ AUX pump (cylinder block coolant crossover is what I call it)
Printed copy of removal and installation instructions from ford manual.
Primary Tensioner
Right arm
Left arm
crank gear
2 intake and 2 exhaust phasers
4 cam bolts
4 VCT solenoids
2 secondary timing chains
2 secondary timing chain tensioners
2 secondary timing chain guides
Primary timing chain
Right chain guide
Left chain guide.
6 pcs cylinder head oil tube bolts
Front crankshaft oil seal
And a partridge in a pear tree
Seriously, PM me if your seriously interested only. Anyone can go to a site like tasca and add it all to a cart and have an idea what it will cost. Just they send the wrong parts
Anyway, offers on the table let me know VIA PM only please
So Ford is self-inflicting more trouble for them and the customer. Crazy.
Supply-chaining is far more complicated than the consumer might realize.
We simply assume the OEM would know what they're doing.
Nice service offer Ryan.
Supply-chaining is far more complicated than the consumer might realize.
We simply assume the OEM would know what they're doing.
Nice service offer Ryan.
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