[Boatwaco]

So does using Auto/Start stop enhance the issue with the phaser? If so, why is that?

It is my opinion that it contributes to the problem - I see it that if starting the engine is starving the Cam Phasers of oil and causes them to wear and rattle, any additional starting, cold or hot engine, may also be contributing.
I have no proof, just a belief.
I also believe all women are beautiful, some just hide it better than others. So please make an informed decision based on your own research.

PS. And I really don't like the Auto Stop / Start feature, so it is easy for me to focus partial blame there.

 

[Boatwaco]

(Last point. If you believe in bullet proof parts I have a bridge to sell ya. KM)

Yeah I guess everything has a ware out point. If phaser lasted say 300k, is that possibly bullet proof?

I think 300K miles qualifies as out distancing the bullets!
The 100K miles bar I grew up with is now at least 200K so 300K is great longevity. 📏

 

[EcoXLT]

People RUN from a vehicle that has been involved in ANY crash, even though in most cases the repair for the crash damage wasn't even as involved as this phaser repair. I don't get it I guess.

This was totally me. A person pulled out in front of me causing me to skid into them. My damages were only bolt on body parts. But sold that truck because I couldn’t live with driving a wrecked truck.

My current truck has a broken blend door actuator. Not going to fix it as it was $3k to remove the entire dash for a $50 part. And I’m afraid I’ll have rattles or other wiring problems. Or broken plastic tabs, scratches.

I totally get how you feel. And my truck was only $24k new in 2013.

 

[EcoXLT]

I think 300K miles qualifies as out distancing the bullets!
The 100K miles bar I grew up with is now at least 200K so 300K is great longevity. 📏

HA HA. I thought about putting down 200 when writing this.

 

[N8tvMT]

The stop/start (dumbest thing ever) causes excessive and unnecessary engine shutdown and startup. Each time this occurs, oil is allowed to drain down due to gravity, away from vital valvetrain components. So with each and every startup, valvetrain components (including the cam phasers which are heavily oil-dependent), are momentarily starved of oil. It's a poor design, but most engines today are OHC so it's here to stay. Ecoboost owners are just lucky to have overly-sensitive vct units, so we get to hear the clatter. You can't put overly oil-dependent vct units in a motor and then starve it of oil constantly with a rediculous start/stop function without expecting problems or noise..

Far as the cause of the noise: it isn't so much the pin trying to unsuccessfully lock into the hole as it is the rotor bouncing of its stop indexes inside the unit. These units were designed to "bounce off" their indexes literally trillions of times, so it isn't causing anymore damage than they were designed for. The issue is the "excessive" amount of bouncing they do due to the pin not locking at low rpm. Really hurts nothing except makes noise. Notice there is never clatter at higher RPM? Oil is being injected at a higher rate and buffering the rotor noise, as well as forcing it closer to one side of its index as it was designed. Idle is the problem as there's not as much oil to remedy the noise and the locking pin doesnt want to stay locked in. People have had great success experimenting with high viscosity oils (full syn) as well as additives like Lucas to quiet the entire process. (I know, the manual says NO additives!). I had a 1999 5.4 Triton with an identical issue with the cam phasers, and ran it with full syn for 150,000 miles with ZERO issues. Everyone just knew that's what a Ford Triton sounded like. Both of my buddies 5.4 rigs sounded identical. Unfortunately, it appears Ford still didn't quiet them up with the Ecoboost!

If you can't stand the noise have them dismantle your vehicle for a week. Otherwise stick full syn in there and go on with life.

 

[snakebitten]

I think that's the key: as long as the "undesirable noise" (as Ford puts it) doesn't affect performance, safety or longevity, I think I can live with it, rather than have my $80,000 rig torn down to the frame by some random Ford shop. That's why its a "customer satisfaction" campaign and NOT a recall. Ford is just trying to make customers that hate a ticking engine happy. They flat say it's a noise and nothing else. I suppose I will take the gamble and if my 3.5 Ecoboost suddenly explodes driving down the highway one day I will be the first to get on here and let everyone know. But don't hold your breath lol.

Again, I sympathize.
I had a 2018 3.5 Ecoboost for just short of 4 years. Only put about 40,000 miles on it, but it was both tuned and used for towing various RV's at the time. (far less towing these days, but always have the truck ready for it)

Anyways, I never even heard the coldstart phaser clatter on that truck. But I was pretty diligent about doing what I personally felt was everything that I could do to "protect" those phasers.
Basically I ran short oil change intervals.
I made sure to get the truck good and hot to battle fuel dilution. (Blackstone reports stated little to no fuel dilution)
And I always used the flood-start pre-oiling routine of the truck had sat more than 24 hours.

That truck was as quiet as a church mouse.

Although I have never seen anything definitive regarding the real reason for the phaser pin to cause that wear in the hole it struggles to find home in, I could only surmise that it's the "moments" of inadequate oil pressure that lead to the wear. So I did what I felt I could do to reduce those moments as much as I could.

Had it started to clatter, even though I still had 20,000 miles of warranty left, I often pondered whether I would let Ford tear into it.
I never had my pondering tested, but I was pretty convinced that I would avoid the repair as long as there was no additional issues beyond the momentary hunting for home clatter.

 

[RuggedGoods]

My new-to-me '19 is the first vehicle I have ever owned with start/stop. I get why OEMs are making this a standard feature now, it does save a bit of fuel, especially when you hit a 4 or 5 minute long traffic light. But there is nothing worse than hitting a quick stop sign, or light that is about to turn green, and "SHLUnk" the engine shudders to a stop. Just for you to lift your foot off the brake and start it right back up. Such a pointless bit of wear and tear. So I find myself reaching for the button on the dash quite a bit.

The other thing I did was use ForScan to increase my desired battery state of charge from 80 to 85%, and now I get start/stop disabled "due to charging" quite often.

Anyway back to the cam phasers. Definitely they will experience the most harsh vibration during engine stopping and starting as the whole timing chain assembly gets thrashed.

Just learned about the "flood start" from this whole discussion as well. Gonna give that a try next time my truck sits still for a full day or two. But I don't have any noticeable phaser rattle now at 55k miles... powertrain warranty coming to and end this year.

Do I take it in to my local Ford dealer and have them inspect? Tempted to let it ride and just take my chances, knowing that I will :
1) always use good oil and change every 5-6k miles
2) not let start/stop be active often
3) maybe start using flood-start technique when the truck has sat for days
4) what else is helpful?

 

[Boatwaco]

I added a behind-the-button auto stop start switch which recalls the prior setting and basically keeps it off without me having to press the button every time I start the truck.
Autostop Eliminator brand I recall

 

[RuggedGoods]

Eh I'll probably end up doing it with ForScan, or when I flash a performance tune.

 

[snakebitten]

I posted a short video about the coldstart flood-start routine showing the oil pressure pid on an Ngauge in order to see what you are aiming for.

It was for this forum.

Had no idea it would have 12,000 views.

 

[butthead]

I posted this in a different thread but may as well add it here. Shows the damage from the pin/pots not fully engaging. KM

 

[butthead]

I posted a short video about the coldstart flood-start routine showing the oil pressure pid on an Ngauge in order to see what you are aiming for.

It was for this forum.

Had no idea it would have 12,000 views.

i saw this after I bought my truck, thank you! Supprized me as after holding WOT and turning the key to start I can let the key go and return to the run position and the truck still cranks. I thought I'd need to hold it in the start position. Then when it has cranked enough just lift off the pedal and it fires right up. KM

 

[N8tvMT]

i saw this after I bought my truck, thank you! Supprized me as after holding WOT and turning the key to start I can let the key go and return to the run position and the truck still cranks. I thought I'd need to hold it in the start position. Then when it has cranked enough just lift off the pedal and it fires right up. KM

Everything's By Wire now lol..

 

[RuggedGoods]

Pretty sure all electronic ignitions have always been "by wire", lol. But it's still kinda surprising that Ford programmed it to act that way (keep cranking until you let off gas pedal, even if you've let off the key).

 

[motorhead1991]

So does using Auto/Start stop enhance the issue with the phaser? If so, why is that?

I believe it's due to oil contamination as well as not getting to working temperature during a drive.

 

[TOWMA8R]

I posted a short video about the coldstart flood-start routine showing the oil pressure pid on an Ngauge in order to see what you are aiming for.

It was for this forum.

Had no idea it would have 12,000 views.

Interesting, I will try this tomorrow morning when I leave as it will be in the high 30s..... I will report back!!!

 

[Dash]

I 1st started hearing mine at 92k and I'm at 102k now, it's quiet on start up but 30 to 45 seconds it starts ticking on the passenger side I had the head tech from my dealership tell me the same thing "it's just a noise and it will be fine until my new truck comes in, we can fix it if you like but the noise/ticking will just come back as Ford has no idea how to fix it" with that being said if I was keeping the truck I would have it done as I agree with what Butthead wrote the noise can't be just ok maybe for a while I don't know but I will be pushing it until then, I dealt with this in my '05 as well very frustrating to say the least, I also feel that the '17 and up are the worst for this problem '17 to '20 can't say for sure but it seems that I see more Gen 2 s that I do gen 1 s

 

[N8tvMT]

One question that's been really bugging me has to do with WARM IDLE noise from these phasers. What is happening there, does anyone know? I get what causes cold start clatter, but what causes warm idle clatter, and why do some that have cold start clatter not have warm idle clatter, while others do?

 

[RuggedGoods]

I did a cold flood-start this morning, real interesting to let off the key and have the starter keep cranking until you lift your foot off the gas pedal. I was kinda chicken and let the engine start after just 3 or 4 seconds, might not have even made great oil pressure yet. But I don't have a rattle, so...

 

[Upshifter]

I don't know if it correlates to anything at all, but when I do the Snake-Start I hear a very clear change in the cranking noise, like the cranking becomes much easier on the starter after 4-5 seconds or so.

In my mind that's a signal oil pressure has been built enough and is flowing through all the nooks and crannies, and its the "OK" to take foot off accelerator and let it fire up for real.

I'm pretty sure the neighbors thing I have a truck that doesn't start well, though.