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Discussion starter · #461 ·
The tune has MBT timing tables that Ford generated through bench testing the motor on high octane fuel. If your tuner has not changed those, then they should kick in to limit timing if you get advanced enough.
I have to assume that has been changed on the GT tune, plus if I was capping at 16 and it say 16, then engine is allowing it.
 
If you’re hitting the spark source for boarder line knock. Then your cap is limiting the timing.

If your hitting the spark source for MBT, than you’re hitting the MBT set in your tune. You can always compare your tune to a stock one (I can in SCT anyway) and you’ll see if those limits were lifted.


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MBT is normally 16 degrees ATDC maybe 18 depending on motor types engine pressure & or the fuel isn’t it ? Granted boosted motors become knock limited before reaching MBT (fuel aside)at least from what I recall school 30yrs ago, getting old sucks,lol
 
I have to assume that has been changed on the GT tune, plus if I was capping at 16 and it say 16, then engine is allowing it.
Question how much have you changed to run e85 ? As isn’t it going to eat all the stock stuff ? plus being a gen1 and the deposit we have to deal with CORN maybe good for Mother Nature but doesn’t it produce a lot more carbon and engine deposits,? Which may lead to even more carbon build up on our valves ? which reminds me I’ve had a brand new dual XL catch can siting on a bench since 2015-16 lol..
 
Discussion starter · #465 ·
Our trucks are already made to handle e15, so I think the system can handle E content. The 5.0 trucks are flex fuel and I cant imagine Ford spend the money to have different components, lines etc, vs ours. That being said, I wouldn't let E sit in the tank for a long time. As long as driving the vehicle a few times a week, should be ok.

I have done nothing except HPFP. I am running the 60% pump. Going to see if I can run straight e85 on it with stock in tank pump. I have not seen anyone try this. Most people upgrading are only using the 35% pump
 
I have to assume that has been changed on the GT tune, plus if I was capping at 16 and it say 16, then engine is allowing it.
The MBT maps are not really supposed to be changed. Ford basically took the motor and bench tested it to figure out when MBT spark was at all the various loads and RPM's.

Maybe ethanol burns a little slower and needs a little more timing, IDK, but my point was if you advanced the boarderline tables to far you would just catch the MBT tables and they would stop you exactly where you need to be.

MBT is normally 16 degrees ATDC maybe 18 depending on motor types engine pressure & or the fuel isn’t it ? Granted boosted motors become knock limited before reaching MBT (fuel aside)at least from what I recall school 30yrs ago, getting old sucks,lol
It depends on RPM for sure and load for sure. The higher the RPM, the faster the piston speed, and the quicker it reaches TDC. I bet the fuel type would change it as well.

169425
 
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Discussion starter · #467 ·
MBT mapped pints are not changed, board line mapped points are changed. That stuff is way too advanced for me and the average user. I let the tuner do that.

You provided MBT mapped point 6, there are what, 12 or so? You're saying in the pic you show, 23 degree would be the max spark advance Ford came up with and after that power flatlines with more spark?...for that particular point.
 
The MBT maps are not really supposed to be changed. Ford basically took the motor and bench tested it to figure out when MBT spark was at all the various loads and RPM's.

Maybe ethanol burns a little slower and needs a little more timing, IDK, but my point was if you advanced the boarderline tables to far you would just catch the MBT tables and they would stop you exactly where you need to be.



It depends on RPM for sure and load for sure. The higher the RPM, the faster the piston speed, and the quicker it reaches TDC. I bet the fuel type would change it as well.

View attachment 169425
Yeah fuel type changes MBT for sure otherwise we wouldn’t be using race fuels and e85 which raises the knock limits and allows us to find max MBT on each particular motor by increasing the timing if that makes sense..
 
MBT mapped pints are not changed, board line mapped points are changed. That stuff is way too advanced for me and the average user. I let the tuner do that.

You provided MBT mapped point 6, there are what, 12 or so? You're saying in the pic you show, 23 degree would be the max spark advance Ford came up with and after that power flatlines with more spark?...for that particular point.
Yes. Its basically a limiter table to not let the engine advance beyond that point because thats where they figured out it made the best power.

Ford already did the work for us, other than the table probably was not developed for E85.
 
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Discussion starter · #470 ·
Yes. Its basically a limiter table to not let the engine advance beyond that point because thats where they figured out it made the best power.

Ford already did the work for us, other than the table probably was not developed for E85.
I would have to look into it. I would go up to 20 if it safe and I think it will be on the e50.

Just hoping it all can handle e85 so i can just pump it in and go. If not, I will stick to e50 bc it is easy to mix ratio.
 
MBT changes with fuel. Brett and I put mine on a Dyno and tested raising spark. Power seemed to peak at 21.5*, but that was just on E30.


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That really seems like a jump to think the ecoboost came with a FLEX FUEL system otherwise wouldn’t they advertise it as a selling point ? Because as you said u don’t think they would have two different fuel systems but they have to because they have two systems on all other models in not just the ford family ,because they use it as a selling point too ,right ?
it’s not like it will melt your fuel system in one month of use but you know what I’m saying ,if your brave enough to be the Guinea pig for everybody it’s Will appreciate it. :) (y)
 
That really seems like a jump to think the ecoboost came with a FLEX FUEL system otherwise wouldn’t they advertise it as a selling point ? Because as you said u don’t think they would have two different fuel systems but they have to because they have two systems on all other models in not just the ford family ,because they use it as a selling point too ,right ?
it’s not like it will melt your fuel system in one month of use but you know what I’m saying ,if your brave enough to be the Guinea pig for everybody it’s Will appreciate it. :) (y)
There are tables in the Ecoboost tunes for adjusting the lambda and other items for E-content. The programming in the tune is not active from the factory however, so it will not compensate for ethanol content on its own. You can turn it on in HP tuners. Thats how there are companies now tuning for anything from 85 octane to full E85 on a single tune.
 
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That really seems like a jump to think the ecoboost came with a FLEX FUEL system otherwise wouldn’t they advertise it as a selling point ? Because as you said u don’t think they would have two different fuel systems but they have to because they have two systems on all other models in not just the ford family ,because they use it as a selling point too ,right ?
it’s not like it will melt your fuel system in one month of use but you know what I’m saying ,if your brave enough to be the Guinea pig for everybody it’s Will appreciate it. :) (y)
There is a big difference between a flex fuel compatible vehicle and flex fuel compatible components.

The fuel lines and injectors are e-content safe.


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There is a big difference between a flex fuel compatible vehicle and flex fuel compatible components.

The fuel lines and injectors are e-content safe.


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Really that’s the first time I’ve heard that ,I was told I guess wrongly that if you do e85 the injectors had to be changed as did the the in tank fuel pump and the HPFP ....what’s the fuel lines made out of then ? I’ve never seriously considered making the jump to e85 I just use either race fuel or a really good and trustworthy Octane booster..
 
Discussion starter · #476 ·
MBT changes with fuel. Brett and I put mine on a Dyno and tested raising spark. Power seemed to peak at 21.5*, but that was just on E30.


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We don't know how your heads factor into that. You can already run more timing on pump gas from head work. I won't mind trying 20 degrees.
 
Discussion starter · #477 ·
Really that’s the first time I’ve heard that ,I was told I guess wrongly that if you do e85 the injectors had to be changed as did the the in tank fuel pump and the HPFP ....what’s the fuel lines made out of then ? I’ve never seriously considered making the jump to e85 I just use either race fuel or a really good and trustworthy Octane booster..
When I test full e85, if the rail pressure does not keep up, then Im going to assuming the in tank pump isnt handling it. I dont think the 35% can handle full e85, only the 60%. That being said, I also have voltage bump on the intank pump I believe.
 
Discussion starter · #478 ·
There is a big difference between a flex fuel compatible vehicle and flex fuel compatible components.

The fuel lines and injectors are e-content safe.


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The intank pump too? If it can handle e15, it should be safe.
 
Really that’s the first time I’ve heard that ,I was told I guess wrongly that if you do e85 the injectors had to be changed as did the the in tank fuel pump and the HPFP ....what’s the fuel lines made out of then ? I’ve never seriously considered making the jump to e85 I just use either race fuel or a really good and trustworthy Octane booster..
it's not a compatibility thing, its a flow capability thing. You need 30% more E85 for the same amount of air flow.
 
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Discussion starter · #480 ·
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